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Which is your favorite KEY/Visual Art's anime serie?


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#61
Zachimillius

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I dont think key series are girly animes, those are girly animes


Yeah so very true. People forget that the key series are targetted to a male audiance...

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#62
Will

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Indeed, though they're hardly manly in a traditional sense either >_>
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#63
baldur

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Indeed, though they're hardly manly in a traditional sense either >_>


Aside from very few exceptions like Berserk, anime has never really been manly in a traditional sense to begin with.

#64
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Aside from very few exceptions like Berserk, anime has never really been manly in a traditional sense to begin with.


That is if you are limiting yourself to masculinity as pertaining to strength, agression, fighting, violence, ruggerdness etc. It overlooks the image of men fawning over big breasted tight butted women, as seen emerging to prominence from the poster girl era (the rise of Play Boy etc). This would be included in a tranditional (hegomonic) view of what is masculine. Though, men's obsession with women certainly extends further back than that! Essentially, the objectification of women is a masculine trait, this can easily parallel the ecchi/harem themed series. Of course, the male protaganist is painted as the good guy who is looking out for the girls, it seems pretty clear that it is playing on a very masculine fantasy
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Arguably, the very notion that a man (a manly man) would watch anime (and cartoons) brings in to question their masculinity....

Anywho, I still agree that most anime are not considered manly. Though it can be looked at in another way considering the existence of multiple masculinities

Alas, this has been made in haste as I am on a break at work!

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#65
baldur

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That is if you are limiting yourself to masculinity as pertaining to strength, agression, fighting, violence, ruggerdness etc.


He said 'manly in a traditional sense' and he is from Australia, Australians are originally people from the British Isles and the British Isles is in Western Europe and most of the Australians culture and mentality is still very much Western European and in Western Europe manly in a traditional sense means strong, courageous etc.

This is what is manly in a traditional sense

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Now anime are east asians and manliness never really had any cultural nor historical importance in east asian societies even up to now, back then rich west europeans (kings, nobles, lords etc.) conveyed a sense of power and strenght, while rich east asian men (emperors and such) used to be quite effeminate with long hair and wore ornemated silk cloths to convey a sense of wealth and beauty.

#66
Zachimillius

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No cultural importance?!?!?! How can you say that?!?!!?! I can understand wear you get the effeminate image from, but do not be fooled. Japan has been a very patriarchal society, gender is under major stratification in Japan, of course it is not such a huge sexism issue as it was with the West! Look at their major political leaders today and in the past. The Emperor was hardly a leader compared to the ruling nobles backed by the Samurai class. That paring was manly as all hell.

HUGE emphasis on the traditional masculine work role model, men are the bread winners, women are the homemakers. Traditionally and incredibly common today, you have men being characterized as dominant and tough, while women are perceived more delicate and emotional

If you look at 'masculine traits' like as success, control, assertiveness, and competitiveness Japan is incredibly masculine from a Japanese business culture point of view (see work by Geert Hofstede for some epic details if international business culture is your thing)

I need to sleep so I wont write and essay but instead direct you to these:

'Men and Masculinities in Contemporary Japan: Dislocating the salaryman doxa' edited by Suzuki and some white dude, i read this recently and was very interesting.

Some others I have come across (during my research)...

Allison, Anne, Nightwork : Sexuality, Pleasure, and Corporate Masculinity in a Tokyo Hostess Club, Chicago: Chicago University Press, 1994.

by the same person is this hilarious (though very serious piece)

Allison, Anne, Permitted and Prohibited Desires: Mothers, Comics and Censorship in Japan, Berkeley: University of California Press, 2000.

Dasgupta, Romit, 'Creating corporate warriors: the "salaryman" and masculinity in Japan,' in Asian Masculinities: The Meaning and Practice of Manhood in China and Japan, ed. Kam Louie & Morris Low, London & New York: Routledge Curzon, 2003, pp. 118–31.

Karlin, Jason G., 'The gender of nationalism: competing masculinities in Meiji Japan,' in Journal of Japanese Studies, vol. 28, no. 1 (2002):41–77.

Ackroyd, Joyce, 'Women in feudal Japan,' in Transactions of the Asiatic Society of Japan, third series, vol. 7, no. 3 (November 1959):31–68.

This one is pretty cool, because you can really see the traditional Japanese girl anime archetype develop from here


I could keep on listing papers but I think I have made my point. Though of course contemporary Japan is something with multiple masculinities as well, hence the reflection in Japanese media and art (i.e anime and manga). This article is brief and very easy to read, looks at how things are changing /have changed quite a lot.
http://edition.cnn.c...rss_mostpopular

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#67
Will

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I'm glad my throwaway comment generated such interesting discussion, but let me clarify. On the one hand, it's built around a dating sim model, which is obviously aimed at men, but on the other hand it's an ultra cutesy show primarily built around the drama and emotions. Agreed, a traditional (Western) manly man wouldn't be the sort to be interested in cartoons at all, probably, but there are shows that fit the manly man stereotype a lot better than others. Black Lagoon, Gurren Lagann, balls to the wall action shows and the like, where the focus is a more physical confrontation.

I should clarify that I'm certainly not trying to say that this is how men should be, or that it's even how men commonly are in this day and age. Just joking around a bit, mostly, and pointing out that being aimed at men in the dating sim sense could still easily be considered not very manly at all.

Gender roles and how culture plays into it is infinitely fascinating, though I certainly haven't read as widely or thoroughly on the matter as Zach. Most of my understanding comes from that one blog I always link to, specifically this article.

Also, Zach, regarding what you said about the ecchi/harem lead, if you didn't read the article I posted on the To Love Ru thread about the duality of male viewership in anime, it's very relevant to what you said about the protagonist being the good guy, but still obviously a male fantasy etc etc.
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#68
Freeman

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Anime women do not turn me on and never will. I prefer the real thing. I'm not much of a boob man. Whenever I watch anime and see a girl with big boobs I think " Huge Retarded Knockers". And I really don't understand the whole aspect of cat ears. I prefer a real woman with a nice ass. Straight blonde hair, nice butt, works out, gorgeous face = angel on earth

I heard the greatest comment the other day on a Berserk video.

"Watch the anime, then read the manga, then watch Conan the Barbarian film. Your manhood will increase and you will understand the unwritten code of MEN....

*CAUTION* you will never feel hopeless and think life is bad or become an emo fag.
SIDE EFFECTS INCLUDE: Manliness, toughness, badassness, and overall awesomeness."


To some degree I agree with the guy.

Watch the anime Salaryman Kintaro. The main character would be my modern day definition of a man.
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Favorite Anime in Order: Yu Yu Hakusho, Hunter X Hunter, DBZ Franchise, G Gundam, Outlaw Star, Maison Ikkoku, One Piece, GTO, Blue Exorcist, Air Gear, Attack on Titian, Rurouni Kenshin, Code Geass, Cowboy Bebop, Berserk, Magi, Get Backers, Fullmetal Alchemist, Street Fighter II V, Gundam Wing, Trinity Blood, S-CRY-ed, Golden Boy, Salary Man Kintaro, Crying Freeman, Fairy Tail, Tenchi Muyo OVA's, Trigun, Death Note, Black Lagoon, Jormungand, Blue Gender, Claymore, Baki the Grappler, Samurai Champloo, Ping Pong Club, Kyo Kara Maoh, My Bride is a Mermaid, Hajime no ippo, Black Lion, Gurren Lagann, High School of the Dead, Hellsing, Toriko, Fist of the North Star, Slam Dunk, Bleach, Desert Punk, Blood Lad, Ushio & Tora, Space Dandy, Btooom, Inital D, Lupin the III, Gokusen, Samurai Deeper Kyo, Afro Samurai, Ghost in the Shell, Samurai 7, Blood +, Kenichi, Case Closed, Cyborg 009, Chrome Shelled Regios, School Rumble, Inuyasha, Baka and Test


#69
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This comment has confused me. I think freeman might of miss interrupted something here...

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#70
Freeman

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maybe. thats what I was thinking :lol:

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Favorite Anime in Order: Yu Yu Hakusho, Hunter X Hunter, DBZ Franchise, G Gundam, Outlaw Star, Maison Ikkoku, One Piece, GTO, Blue Exorcist, Air Gear, Attack on Titian, Rurouni Kenshin, Code Geass, Cowboy Bebop, Berserk, Magi, Get Backers, Fullmetal Alchemist, Street Fighter II V, Gundam Wing, Trinity Blood, S-CRY-ed, Golden Boy, Salary Man Kintaro, Crying Freeman, Fairy Tail, Tenchi Muyo OVA's, Trigun, Death Note, Black Lagoon, Jormungand, Blue Gender, Claymore, Baki the Grappler, Samurai Champloo, Ping Pong Club, Kyo Kara Maoh, My Bride is a Mermaid, Hajime no ippo, Black Lion, Gurren Lagann, High School of the Dead, Hellsing, Toriko, Fist of the North Star, Slam Dunk, Bleach, Desert Punk, Blood Lad, Ushio & Tora, Space Dandy, Btooom, Inital D, Lupin the III, Gokusen, Samurai Deeper Kyo, Afro Samurai, Ghost in the Shell, Samurai 7, Blood +, Kenichi, Case Closed, Cyborg 009, Chrome Shelled Regios, School Rumble, Inuyasha, Baka and Test


#71
Freeman

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I watched 5 episodes of clannad and couldn't take it anymore. Just not my thing. I like all genres of anime, but wow I couldn't do it. I would rather watch some berserk, hunter x hunter, or yu yu hakusho. The only thing I liked in clannad was the dad of the chick that got sick. I'm all for a little drama and light comedy. I find Bishōjo boring. Heres a couple of dramas I enjoyed: Tenchi, chobits, high school rumble and the greatest drama anime of all time Maison Ikkoku. One last thing if your really into the visual key anime, you should consider taking a break from anime and start watching the show nip tuck. I will guarantee you 100% percent or your money back that nip tuck is far better than any drama related anime you will ever watch. So swallow your pride and check it out if you have never seen it. :welcome:


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Favorite Anime in Order: Yu Yu Hakusho, Hunter X Hunter, DBZ Franchise, G Gundam, Outlaw Star, Maison Ikkoku, One Piece, GTO, Blue Exorcist, Air Gear, Attack on Titian, Rurouni Kenshin, Code Geass, Cowboy Bebop, Berserk, Magi, Get Backers, Fullmetal Alchemist, Street Fighter II V, Gundam Wing, Trinity Blood, S-CRY-ed, Golden Boy, Salary Man Kintaro, Crying Freeman, Fairy Tail, Tenchi Muyo OVA's, Trigun, Death Note, Black Lagoon, Jormungand, Blue Gender, Claymore, Baki the Grappler, Samurai Champloo, Ping Pong Club, Kyo Kara Maoh, My Bride is a Mermaid, Hajime no ippo, Black Lion, Gurren Lagann, High School of the Dead, Hellsing, Toriko, Fist of the North Star, Slam Dunk, Bleach, Desert Punk, Blood Lad, Ushio & Tora, Space Dandy, Btooom, Inital D, Lupin the III, Gokusen, Samurai Deeper Kyo, Afro Samurai, Ghost in the Shell, Samurai 7, Blood +, Kenichi, Case Closed, Cyborg 009, Chrome Shelled Regios, School Rumble, Inuyasha, Baka and Test


#72
JohnFlower

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^ in denial. Just watch it, it is an excellent story.

#73
Will

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It sounds ridiculous, but it's really the sort of thing that has to be stuck with at least till the second season if you want to find out why everyone loves it. The first series is mostly just set up. Clannad has more factors about it that irk me than I could count, I'd probably count it as one of the most flawed shows I've ever seen, yet I'd still rate it as one of my favourite series because of the incredible emotional power of the entire package. If you can't sit through the whole thing you're really not going to get what everyone's on about, it changes drastically in the 2nd series, just for starters. All that said, I don't think anyone would blame you for not being able to sit through it to that point. I certainly wouldn't.
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#74
Zachimillius

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One last thing if your really into the visual key anime, you should consider taking a break from anime and start watching the show nip tuck. I will guarantee you 100% percent or your money back that nip tuck is far better than any drama related anime you will ever watch. So swallow your pride and check it out if you have never seen it.




My favorite thing to watch is two girls one cup. It is far better than anything else you will ever watch. So swallow your pride and check it out if you have never seen it. It stands to reason my tastes should be and are indeed your tastes just unrealized, for however long you have been watching, trialing genres and enjoying media content counts for nothing. My personal experience is the one which is correct.

Fail logic. That is what your saying, just not so blatantly or rudely.

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#75
Freeman

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My favorite thing to watch is two girls one cup. It is far better than anything else you will ever watch. So swallow your pride and check it out if you have never seen it. It stands to reason my tastes should be and are indeed your tastes just unrealized, for however long you have been watching, trialing genres and enjoying media content counts for nothing. My personal experience is the one which is correct.

Fail logic. That is what your saying, just not so blatantly or rudely.


Comparing Nip Tuck to Clannad is like comaping the Mona Lisa to this guy.
http://revolutionmed...31053203723.jpg

Sry man I'm just posting my opinion. I tried 5 episodes and just wasn't my thing. I have a pretty big palate when it cones to anime and TV. Don't let my comments affect your perception, for any recommendations I may give.

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Favorite Anime in Order: Yu Yu Hakusho, Hunter X Hunter, DBZ Franchise, G Gundam, Outlaw Star, Maison Ikkoku, One Piece, GTO, Blue Exorcist, Air Gear, Attack on Titian, Rurouni Kenshin, Code Geass, Cowboy Bebop, Berserk, Magi, Get Backers, Fullmetal Alchemist, Street Fighter II V, Gundam Wing, Trinity Blood, S-CRY-ed, Golden Boy, Salary Man Kintaro, Crying Freeman, Fairy Tail, Tenchi Muyo OVA's, Trigun, Death Note, Black Lagoon, Jormungand, Blue Gender, Claymore, Baki the Grappler, Samurai Champloo, Ping Pong Club, Kyo Kara Maoh, My Bride is a Mermaid, Hajime no ippo, Black Lion, Gurren Lagann, High School of the Dead, Hellsing, Toriko, Fist of the North Star, Slam Dunk, Bleach, Desert Punk, Blood Lad, Ushio & Tora, Space Dandy, Btooom, Inital D, Lupin the III, Gokusen, Samurai Deeper Kyo, Afro Samurai, Ghost in the Shell, Samurai 7, Blood +, Kenichi, Case Closed, Cyborg 009, Chrome Shelled Regios, School Rumble, Inuyasha, Baka and Test


#76
Zachimillius

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Oh do not worry about that. I just thought it was retard you were so sure we would prefer Nip Tuck over Clannad and all other anime drama.

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#77
baldur

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Comparing Nip Tuck to Clannad is like comaping the Mona Lisa to this guy.
http://revolutionmed...31053203723.jpg

Sry man I'm just posting my opinion. I tried 5 episodes and just wasn't my thing. I have a pretty big palate when it cones to anime and TV. Don't let my comments affect your perception, for any recommendations I may give.


If you didn't like the first five episodes you won't like the rest, it's just a slice-of-life anime with drama elements.

Try Kanon and Air next to see if you like these any better.


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