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Is Anime Getting Worse?


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#21
Ero Penguin

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haha PM'd both of you. Not gonna post here.

#22
shuurin

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Not gonna post here.

Post it. No need to be shy :P

#23
Cman21

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if anyone flames at your post trust me i can very easily :banned: them :D

#24
Ero Penguin

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OK, here it is.

#25
Mallory

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Wow, you made your anime list look hella nice! O.O Mine's still the plain old white and blue. XD

That's a pretty impressive amount of anime to have already seen in only two seasons!

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#26
shuurin

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:banned:

Why is there even a smiley for this (lol)?

Wow, you made your anime list look hella nice! O.O Mine's still the plain old white and blue. XD

That's a pretty impressive amount of anime to have already seen in only two seasons!

My thoughts exactly :D

MAL says, we only share about 60% of our animes. However, in almost every anime we share, there's only zero to one point difference in our ratings.

Seeing that you tried watching Hellsing, I recommend you to skip it and watch Hellsing Ultimate (OVA) instead. Ultimate stays more true to the original manga and doesn't add filler episodes. Being an OVA (a very well made one at that), it's production values exceed Hellsing (TV) by far.

Edit:

cuz i wanted a way to display my ban hammer but there are a lot of them now ;) one of personal favorites is beating people with my rotten fish :fish:

xD

Edited by Cover350, 28 December 2011 - 02:32 PM.


#27
Cman21

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Why is there even a smiley for this (lol)?


cuz i wanted a way to display my ban hammer but there are a lot of them now ;) one of personal favorites is beating people with my rotten fish :fish:

that said :offtopic:!!!

#28
13ack.Stab

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Seeing that you tried watching Hellsing, I recommend you to skip it and watch Hellsing Ultimate (OVA) instead. Ultimate stays more true to the original manga and doesn't contain filler episodes. Being an OVA (a very well made one at that), it's production values exceed Hellsing (TV) by far.


Definitely watch Hellsing Ultimate. I absolutely hated the original TV anime, but the OVAs are phenomenal.

I'll take a look at your list a little bit later today. :)

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#29
Ero Penguin

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Yeah been wanting to watch Ultimate since so many people recommended it. I was waiting for dubs and a dual audio BD encode, but guess I'll watch the subs. Thanks for the recs.

That's a pretty impressive amount of anime to have already seen in only two seasons!

I've been watching anime since I was a kid. Stuff like InuYasha, Rerouni Kenshin and some others I watched way back when they used to air on TV. But then I thought these were all Japanese cartoons and didn't know much about anime. Started watching anime regularly about 2 years ago, cleared the backlog a little and started following ongoing seasons from January this year.

Edited by Ero Penguin, 28 December 2011 - 02:41 PM.


#30
Zachimillius

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You have cleared a backlog?!?!?! Mine looks like it will never be cleared. Though a few or perhaps a lot of the series on it may fall into catagories of "anime that is crap".

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#31
13ack.Stab

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You have cleared a backlog


Well, he did say "a little," lol. I'm pretty sure clearing your entire anime backlog is impossible.

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#32
Koby

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Well, he did say "a little," lol. I'm pretty sure clearing your entire anime backlog is impossible.

I've gotten my backlog down to 80 once, then I slacked off watching and ended up with 160+ in a matter of a few months, now I've got roughly 200 or so shows on my plan to watch whether they're old shows I haven't seen yet or shows that haven't been released yet and only just announced or whatever. I seem to watch less each season than I actually pick up thus every season I get further behind on my endless pursuit to catch up on my plan to watch list. Though I have gotten more picky about what I pick up and I have gotten to where I'll drop shit if it doesn't suit me well unlike a few years back when I refused to drop anything.

Edited by Koby, 29 December 2011 - 12:12 AM.


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#33
Zachimillius

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IT has to be pretty bad for me to drop something: Queens Blade and some shocking Alice in WOnderland thing, then there was Kanamemo... Heavy yuri themes are often good, but add in a 13yo protagonist and it is rather off putting.

Edited by Zachimillius, 29 December 2011 - 06:04 AM.

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#34
Mallory

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IT has to be pretty bad for me to drop something: Queens Blade and some shocking Alice in WOnderland thing, then there was Kanamemo... Heavy yuri themes are often good, but add in a 13yo protagonist and it is rather off putting.


Is this the Alice in Wonderland one you're talking about by chance?

http://myanimelist.n...ul_Wonder_World

I have it on my plan to watch list actually....xD

And wtf, a 13yo? This is why anime is getting worse....-__-

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#35
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No, it is this is it http://www.anime-pla...yuu-alice-rondo

It was not made erotic in anyway, but it was still seemed off.

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#36
Koby

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Is this the Alice in Wonderland one you're talking about by chance?

http://myanimelist.n...ul_Wonder_World

I have it on my plan to watch list actually....xD

And wtf, a 13yo? This is why anime is getting worse....-__-


That looks surprisingly interesting. Another added to my ever-growing list to watch, lol. xD


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You bastards You stole my sisters horn and stole my reason to live, but that wasnt enough?

Now you have come here, and steal my reason to die, too?!


#37
13ack.Stab

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And wtf, a 13yo? This is why anime is getting worse....-__-


Now this I agree with. I just can't get behind ridiculously underaged protagonists (or antagonists, for that matter). -_-

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#38
Cman21

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but i just love brave story! and im sure that kid is about 8-10. so... age doesnt mean much in that sense. but i can also see why age does mater for us "older" audiences.

#39
Mallory

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That looks surprisingly interesting. Another added to my ever-growing list to watch, lol. xD


Lolol, ikr? I saw it and a lot of people have been talking about it so I decided I would watch it at some point but I haven't actually gone and looked for it yet. xD

No, it is this is it http://www.anime-pla...yuu-alice-rondo

It was not made erotic in anyway, but it was still seemed off.


Not gonna lie, that anime looks god awful. XD

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#40
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I find this topic somewhat fascinating, so I thought I'd chime in for once and offer some opinions. This will likely become an entire novel and while I don't expect anyone to make it to the end, perhaps it will resonate with some of you who feel like recent seasons have been alienating you.

A little bit of background on where I stand on this subject: I've watched over 200 anime (of which 100+ are TV series I've actually completed), taken two years of Japanese, and been an anime obsessed otaku throughout my teen years and early 20's. With all of that said, my interest in anime has waned drastically to the point where I can't even stand to watch the stuff anymore, and my reasoning is multi-faceted. My opinions may be somewhat outdated, as I've primarily dropped out of the scene in the last year and a half, but I believe most of it still rings pretty much true.

Much of the "problem" with modern anime has a lot less to do with anime itself and more to do with the market that anime is targeted to. Being a mid-twenties western-minded male now, anime is generally not targeted towards me, which was a tough realization to grasp after years of being a huge anime fan. That is to say, the anime industry itself is no longer designed for "me", and I'll explain why.

1. Japan's Money Woes on the Business End. Japan, as most know, has been in a poor economic recession since the early 90's and virtually the entire population has had to find various ways to cope. This has had wide reaching effects on many of the cultural exports that Japan became famous for. I'll avoid standing on my soapbox about the direction of Japan's game development studios and major consumer electronics companies (such as Sony). I'll summarize by pointing readers to investigate the differences in the last decade between Japanese consumer electronics and cultural exports and the South Koreans: The differences are stark and worth looking at (long story short, SK is the sequel to Japan -- mark my words in 10-15 years). Getting back to the anime world specifically, animation houses such as Bones, Gainax and Madhouse generally do not fund their own projects. Instead, they pitch projects to production houses who fund the development and generally get the say in how a project progresses. So what do these two things have to do with one another?

The production houses do not have the oodles and oodles of cash reserves that they used to. That's dwindling and evidenced by a multitude of closures in the last 5-10 years. Animation houses and production houses alike have been enduring massive losses and they can no longer afford to spend money on projects that are not going to be guaranteed breadwinners. This is a pretty common explanation given for the lack of new, unique IP in the anime world. Notice how many projects nowadays seem to be sequels, remakes, or near-identical replicas of other popular series? You can generally thank the production houses for not wanting to take risks on what consumers are willing to spend their hard-earned money on.

2. Japan's Money Woes on the Consumer End. Another piece of the puzzle is related to a difference in how anime is generally supported financially. Unlike Western TV shows (and to some extent other non-anime Japanese TV programs), anime is not generally funded to any great degree by commercial interests over-the-air. In other words, commercials on the TV do not typically fund enough for anime to keep itself afloat. Instead, anime depends a large part on DVD and other miscellaneous item (e.g. posters, figurines, etc.) sales from the Japanese consumer (and if you think our anime DVD's are expensive, look at what the Japanese consumers pay -- it's incredible). The Japanese consumers have long held the anime industry up on generosity: They love the industry, they love the art, and they're willing to support it with their cash. No, I said that wrong: They must support it with their cash or it will go away entirely. The hard core anime fans don't have as much expendable cash as they did 10-15 years ago (an already withering depression compounded by a global recession will do that) so the consumers there are far less willing to whip out their cash for over priced DVD's when they don't know whether or not the show is worthy of it.

This means that, generally speaking, the consumers are now pickier than they ever would have been in the past. They don't want to take risks on shows that push the boundaries: They want to spend their money on the series that [are similar to what] they've been enjoying since they were teenagers and young kids. They want experience nostalgia over, and over, and over again. This is largely a cultural difference and there is a minority of the western audience that works this way as well. Nostalgia is a powerful emotion and it's ruling the Japanese consumer mindset these days (and likely for the next foreseeable future).

3. It's Not Anime that's Changing: It's You. Ok, so that's somewhat a lie, anime is changing. So is every other expressive medium that's older than 10 years. The point being, however, that anime is still targeting the same people it targeted 10 years ago. And you're not the same person you were 10 years ago. Go ahead and re-watch Neon Genesis Evangelion again and try, just try, to take off your rose colored nostalgic glasses. Go ahead, I'll wait.

... OK, now that that's over with. Was your mind blown by the ending? Did you honestly feel like the characters were well built and well written? Was Shinji not an annoying bratty angsty teenage brat? My 16-17 year old self would be waxing on and on about the virtues of NGE and how mind bending and unique the plot line was. It was an experience that cemented my otaku-isms. Now I find the experience trite and unfulfilling, and the characters quite easily get on my nerves. How about I go a step further and commit true blasphemy. I just recently re-watched Trust and Betrayal with a good friend. This was my all-time favorite anime for... well... always. My last (and second) watch, however, 10 years later, I can summarize in one word: Bore. Fest. (OK, two words).

Now there are two possible explanations for this. Either these two titles have actually literally changed in the last 10 years, and aliens from outer space (or something) came and modified my DVD's and made them suck more... Or my tastes have changed dramatically. I'm going to side with the latter explanation. And perhaps for some of you on these forums, this is probably the more likely case as well if you've experienced something similar with your nostalgic titles. I don't know though, those aliens are sneaky.

4. Anime is Geared for Teens. Elephant in the room. I've said it. Anime is aimed at teens. Or younger. Go ahead, string me up and whip me mercilessly. It's true and the anime industry is not shy about it in the slightest. For example (and I stress *for example*, I could go on and on about this topic), there is nothing that someone older than 25 hates more than a story line that feels the need to explain every single minute detail explicitly to ensure the viewer is still following along. I'm sorry, do you need me to recap that for you? Anime is aimed at teens. Or younger. How many times have you seen anime that shows you a sequence you literally *just watched* 30 seconds ago flash before your eyes again? And no, I'm not referring to the standard practice of showing the sequence right before a commercial break. I mean right smack-dab in the middle of a show. Or how about the "Argghhh I'm about to punch you very slowly so that I can explain the reasoning behind my punching you whilst my fist is going through the air because punching you clearly takes a whole 325 animation frames, of which most if it is going to be my fist copy pasted over a flashing background because the animation industry doesn't have enough money to actually really animate this stuff (not really a critique more of a fact of how anime came to be)". Either the characters are distanced really far apart and the fist has to travel a long way, or the writers feel the need to hand-hold the viewer through the sequence and ensure they know what's going on.

Another bullet point that tends to ring true for those of us post-college age is that we tend to suffer a dramatic drop-off of interest in "school-based" anime. We're working people now. Give us some more Cowboy Bebop, Hataraki Man, Death Note or Monster. Things we can connect with. Even maturely themed college-aged shows would be OK, like Honey and Clover for instance. But alas, these audiences are not big and they don't sustain the industry. No, the wide majority of the money is going to come from school-age and college-age people and that's where the large quantity of series are going to go.

5. Japan's Sense of Humor. Look, Japan. You're cool. I think your architecture is neat, your language is pretty (although horribly complex), you have great food, good looking women, and a long, sometimes interesting history (8 credit hours of Chinese and Japanese History, thanks). You're not very funny though. Japan's sense of humor is odd. It's often very slapstick and relatively immature even for the adults. It can be a bit "punny" (not to be confused with funny) and generally appeals to the Japanese and only the Japanese. How many times do we have to see the "ooops I tripped and accidentally brushed my hand across that girl's breasts and now she's angry and oh she just punched my lights out and my nose is bleeding oh no!" joke played over? I would have laughed when I was 12, maybe 13. Not now. Not ever again. This isn't a problem specific to anime, however. Go watch Japanese TV. Seriously, go watch it. Watch a Drama, maybe check out some of their "funny" commercials on YouTube. They will likely strike you as about as funny as one of those awful car dealership commercials we see on TV where the owner of the dealership thinks they're just a riot.

Now this isn't to say anime can't be funny: It can be and it is sometimes (no joke, Azumanga Daioh still gets me). However, the overwhelming majority of so called "comedy" is about as laughter inducing as a trip to the dentist without the laughing gas. It almost makes me wonder if these comedy shows come with nitrous oxide packaged in the DVD box sets. I might have to check on that later.


OK, I feel like this has gone on long enough. I haven't tapped myself out of all of the topics I would say sum up my demise in interest in anime. And by all means, if even a single soul manages to read this entire thing and wants more, I'll give more. However I think this post is long enough and warrants a click of the "Post" button. Perhaps someone will enjoy this and I certainly don't mean to offend anyone with these opinions. I don't want to be misunderstood: Anime is a fantastic expressive medium and I believe there's a lot of it that does cater to a wide range of people. (Adults, for instance, may want to check out more Josei-themed titles, as the characters tend to have more depth and the themes tend to be more mature.) I do think, however, anime itself is experiencing a dearth of writing quality, a drop in artistic integrity due to monetary constraints, and an overall failure to "age up" with its audiences and instead opting to abandon its old audience and serve the new up and coming audiences instead. In Japan this approach is working well. In the West, well, not so much, and the writing is sadly on the wall for western anime distribution. That's another post entirely, though, so let me stop here.

---------

For additional (albeit sometimes crude) commentary during the height of my anime fan-dome you can read my series of rants on anime itself at: http://www.caseylutz...category/anime/. They're old and outdated now (references to Shakugan no Shana and the like) but points out the trends I disliked about anime even while greatly enjoying the medium. Take them as humorous pieces, because even the things I poke fun at weren't necessarily things I completely disliked. I do, however, want to highlight one piece as I feel it's especially inspiring:

Anime has in many times proven that its main goal is to attempt to convey what cannot be conveyed in other mediums. It wants to reach deeper strings that a live-action series will not show, or that a novel will have a hard time conveying. Many want to take the artistic bounds of other artistic mediums and smash them using anime as their hammer. Boiling down “greatness” to simply meaning “looks cool when I buy her as a figurine for my collection” is the epitome of bad fandom and is a disrespect to the truly great artists out there.

Get back to that mantra and I'll get back to watching.


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