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My new little toy


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#21
Zachimillius

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I have always wanted to give hunting a go. Of course to eat the animal, hunting for sport goes against my particular way of thinking. Further, it just seem so much more extreme hunting my own dinner, with a bow... boar hunting with a bow... yes, that is now added onto my bucket list.

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#22
eccon

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I don't even normally keep the guns in the same house I live in, as the only gun safe I have access to is at my dads house. I don't have the guns for protection. I own the guns for target practice, having fun, and hunting. I go dove, duck, hog, and deer hunting every year. Hog you can hunt any time of year, the others all have specific seasons where you can only hunt them during that time.

Poor animals. They are tasty, but I'm feeling sorry for them anyway :(

#23
Koby

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I have always wanted to give hunting a go. Of course to eat the animal, hunting for sport goes against my particular way of thinking. Further, it just seem so much more extreme hunting my own dinner, with a bow... boar hunting with a bow... yes, that is now added onto my bucket list.

I don't kill an animal unless it's either disturbing me (snake in the house or in the yard, squirrels or racoons messing up stuff), attacking my animals (coyote's, stray dogs), etc... or I plan to eat it (dove, duck, hog, deer, etc). We've made quite a bit of Deer Jerky the past few weeks from the deer mom got during this hunting season which just ended a week ago.

Poor animals. They are tasty, but I'm feeling sorry for them anyway :(

Hey, at least they had a good life before they crossed my path and ended up on a dinner plate.

Almost every bit of meat you buy in a store came from an animal caged up, abused, and pumped full of steroids and other chemicals. You know with chicken... they pump it so full of shit that it goes from hatching to being fully grown in a matter of a couple a weeks then it gets plucked while alive.


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You bastards You stole my sisters horn and stole my reason to live, but that wasnt enough?

Now you have come here, and steal my reason to die, too?!


#24
QifutuWahuta

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I moved to Wisconsin about a year ago, and EVERYONE up here hunts. It's astounding. I don't have any problem with it, I just don't see much sport in it. Unless we gave bears guns ...

Anyway, I really want to learn to hunt my own food, because I think it'd be quite interesting, and because in the zombie apocalypse, I'll need the knowledge. EDIT: And tasty! How could I forget tasty?

#25
Cman21

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tasty zombies... :huh:

lol, ya i haven't actually went hunting either but i would love to go out to some random shack for a few months and only have rations for a few weeks forcing me/us to survive or go home a looser.

#26
Zachimillius

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Deer jerky!!! I went to try and buy some, but it is so hard to find here in Australia!!!

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#27
Koby

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Deer jerky!!! I went to try and buy some, but it is so hard to find here in Australia!!!

Well I know in the US it's illegal to sell game meat like deer, dove, duck, etc.. that have specific hunting seasons and limits.


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You bastards You stole my sisters horn and stole my reason to live, but that wasnt enough?

Now you have come here, and steal my reason to die, too?!


#28
Will

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Don't particularly want to get things fired up again, but I do want to put in my two cents, so ah well. Personally I think Eccon and Zachimillius have made by far the best points, and Zach, sorry if this comes across offensively, but holy crap you get a lot more eloquent when not talking about anime :P . It's a shame everyone seems to have ignored their points to argue far less worthy ones.

Calling Pinny naive seems a bit much. I don't think Pinny was saying guns = evil, to quote "guns don't give protection, they bring only harm." Only is a bit strong, but I agree with the notion, which has been best argued by Zach so far, and which has been thoroughly ignored so far in favour of espousing irrelevancies on the evils of humanity and making up statements Pinny never made nor implied (guns=evil, courtesy of Cman), and arguing largely using anecdotal evidence (Forge). Stab's point about prosecution is more interesting, but I think it ignores the possibility of prosecution as a deterrent. If you can stay and rob someone through an alarm at the cost of a much higher chance of getting caught, then I think you'd certainly think twice. Whatever the case it's still largely irrelevant to the much more interesting and pertinent point of whether guns do more harm than good in a society.

As you seem to mostly agree, guns don't cause crime, people do, but by the same token, guns don't stop crime, they escalate it.
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#29
Cman21

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simply slapping a "guns = death" sticker on the issue is truly naive.


i said death not evil, 2 vastly different things, which pinny directly relates to in his argument.

#30
Will

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You did, I apologise, that was Forge's point (no bad things just bad people etc.). Where does Pinny say or imply that though? Also, one question, that scenario you mentioned in your first post, how would you also having a gun in that situation possibly attain a better outcome?
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#31
Animefan93

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Maybe people buy a gun to be used as a deterrent. You wouldn't rob a persons house if you knew they have a gun. Going to use anime to point out my fact. If say you knew Vegeta lived in x house you would think many times before trying to break in.

Also if you want to rob someone or something just be a con artist like Neil from White Collar. Also why not buy a bean bag gun, it wont kill them but it will hurt just as much.

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#32
Zachimillius

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Don't particularly want to get things fired up again, but I do want to put in my two cents, so ah well. Personally I think Eccon and Zachimillius have made by far the best points, and Zach, sorry if this comes across offensively, but holy crap you get a lot more eloquent when not talking about anime :P . It's a shame everyone seems to have ignored their points to argue far less worthy ones.

Calling Pinny naive seems a bit much. I don't think Pinny was saying guns = evil, to quote "guns don't give protection, they bring only harm." Only is a bit strong, but I agree with the notion, which has been best argued by Zach so far, and which has been thoroughly ignored so far in favour of espousing irrelevancies on the evils of humanity and making up statements Pinny never made nor implied (guns=evil, courtesy of Cman), and arguing largely using anecdotal evidence (Forge). Stab's point about prosecution is more interesting, but I think it ignores the possibility of prosecution as a deterrent. If you can stay and rob someone through an alarm at the cost of a much higher chance of getting caught, then I think you'd certainly think twice. Whatever the case it's still largely irrelevant to the much more interesting and pertinent point of whether guns do more harm than good in a society.

As you seem to mostly agree, guns don't cause crime, people do, but by the same token, guns don't stop crime, they escalate it.


I have studied much criminology :P

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#33
pinny

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I didn't mean to go into a heated discussion on the whole gun thing. I'm just interested in what it's like to live on the other side of the sea, seeing as I might need to go there for work in the future. It seems like you live in fear of being harmed, so I guess having a gun around would give you some peace of mind... It's not like that here. The only fear we know is for example that of being harmed by disease or of not being able to pay the rent. Living in a small village, like mine, far away from the densely populated areas is a big difference from living in a huge city. As far as that goes my opinion on the need for protection is biased.

I should've just asked about what it's like, instead of voicing my own thoughts on the matter from the start. Sorry for that :(

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#34
Forge

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You did, I apologise, that was Forge's point (no bad things just bad people etc.). Where does Pinny say or imply that though?


I just think a gun just makes it too easy to kill, also by 'accident'. It gives the user sense of power, which can be really dangerous in certain situations.
A knife, or other hand to hand combat tools, are a lot less dangerous and gives the user a lot less chance of success.

This. A law-abiding person won't feel a sense of power by owning a gun. It'll be the same for him as owning a chainsaw or a machete . It's a tool.

When you start to feel power over someone, which I assume is the preposition Pinny was implying, then that's not good, and is only a few steps away from a criminal act.


As you seem to mostly agree, guns don't cause crime, people do, but by the same token, guns don't stop crime, they escalate it.

You have figures to support that argument? I'll have to consolidate my sources, but I remember a statistic that said that firearms are three to five times more likely to prevent a crime than to be used in a crime.

Also, what do you mean by "escalate crime"? Do you mean the presence guns will increase the total number and/or severity of crimes? Or do you mean the presence of a gun any given crime will change the crime from a simple burglary into a homicide?



I didn't mean to go into a heated discussion on the whole gun thing. I'm just interested in what it's like to live on the other side of the sea, seeing as I might need to go there for work in the future. It seems like you live in fear of being harmed, so I guess having a gun around would give you some peace of mind... It's not like that here. The only fear we know is for example that of being harmed by disease or of not being able to pay the rent. Living in a small village, like mine, far away from the densely populated areas is a big difference from living in a huge city. As far as that goes my opinion on the need for protection is biased.

I should've just asked about what it's like, instead of voicing my own thoughts on the matter from the start. Sorry for that :(

To be honest Pinny, most gun owners are never going to find themselves in a position where they have to use a gun to defend themselves. Hell, most people won't have to defend themselves, period.

#35
ruprecht29

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Why are military grade firearms available to be purchased by private citizens? I can see hunting rifles and shotguns. What kind of an animal apart from a human are you going to hunt with an MP5 or a Glock? Chris Rock had a good idea, make the bullets really expensive. ;)

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#36
Forge

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Why are military grade firearms available to be purchased by private citizens? I can see hunting rifles and shotguns. What kind of an animal apart from a human are you going to hunt with an MP5 or a Glock? Chris Rock had a good idea, make the bullets really expensive. ;)

I'm gonna cap you ass! But hold on, I gotta put this bullets on layaway!

Concerning Glocks, which are pistols, sometimes it's not viable to always have a long arm nearby. Hence the compactness of a pistol.

#37
QifutuWahuta

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Why are military grade firearms available to be purchased by private citizens? I can see hunting rifles and shotguns. What kind of an animal apart from a human are you going to hunt with an MP5 or a Glock? Chris Rock had a good idea, make the bullets really expensive. ;)


You hunt the deadliest game of all- Man.

and on a tangent:
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#38
Zachimillius

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Where did this amazing idea come from?

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#39
Will

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Ok, quick response.

Forge, I still don't interpret what Pinny said there as guns=death. Gun lethality > hand to hand weapon lethality, certainly, but that's not the same, nor do I think that part of what Pinny said is incorrect. I agree mostly with you about the power over others thing, though I can definitely see where Pinny is coming from there.

No I do not have figures to support that, though I appreciate that you are asking for figures, I agree, real evidence is what matters, without it the argument is all entirely theoretical and largely unimportant. I actually said that mainly to remind people about Zach's point (the relationship between gun control and gun-related fatalities and injuries etc.), which I still think deserves a response much more than my comment did. Zach, if you have any related statistics (which I assume you do since you've actually studied this), it would be great if you could put the links up here. By the same token, unless you can produce the statistic you refer to, your point is null.

As far as what I meant by escalate goes, I meant severity, not frequency (though I wouldn't write off the possibility that frequency is affected).

Also, that picture is freaking awesome.

Anyway, people seem to be determined to side-track the topic, and Zach seems quite happy to be side-tracked, so I doubt this is going to go anywhere. Chalk this one down to cultural difference if you like.
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#40
Zachimillius

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I use my University database to find things: There are heaps, some for the U.S would be by a group of Harvard folk who are pretty famous researchers in this field. They have a lot of papers but here are some:

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. "Household Firearm Ownership Levels and Homicide Rates across U.S. Regions and States, 1988-1997." American Journal of Public Health. 2002: 92:1988-1993.

This basically shows that the people in states with a more pro gun policy and availability have higher rates of homicide (of course relative to the population and controlling poverty etc etc and other factors, this is proper research people)


Another good one, and even better one i reckon is:

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. "State-level Homicide Victimization Rates in the U.S. in Relation to Survey Measures of Household Firearm Ownership, 2001-2003." Social Science and Medicine. 2007; 64:656-64.

Pretty convincing data that States with higher levels of household gun ownership also have higher rates of firearm homicide and homicide rates overall.

If you look at stats outside of the states in other developed countries, you see similar results of where there be more guns there be more homicides:

Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew. "Firearm Availability and Homicide Rates across 26 High Income Countries." Journal of Trauma. 2000; 49:985-88.

The same people have done research into accidental death and injury as well:

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. "Firearm Availability and Unintentional Firearm Deaths." Accident Analysis and Prevention. 2001; 33:477-84.

This article basically say more guns = more accidental deaths.

There is also this one :http://findarticles....ag=content;col1

I like this one, it more down to earth rather than hating on guns. However it's research is less thorough, this is not to say it shit, still very creditable.

May add more to this later.

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