39 replies to this topic

[Cman21]

yay i have finally found a good laser attachment for my Gen 3 Glock 26

Crimson Trace Laser LG 626

and if you wonder why i have a G26 or forgot, i got it for self defense after getting robbed at gunpoint from the old house i used to live in. they just literally walked right in about an hour after sundown while i was playing BF BC 2 and 2 other friends sitting across from me on the 360 playing COD. we thought it was a stupid joke, as you know how some idiots are around collage can be, but it wasnt. anyway enough of that lame crap and back to the fun! i cannot wait to dial this bad boy in

[Koby]

Congrats Cman.

I have a lot of guns myself. Mostly use them for hunting or just having fun shooting. Dad has all the reloading equipment so we even reload our own shells.

[pinny]

Crazy americans...

Guns don't give protection, they bring only harm.

Call it my dutch pacifism if you will, but I don't think you should be calling such things toys or brag about having them...

If you can only feel safe by having to carry a gun in your part of the world then I'm sooooooo glad I don't have to live there.

[Forge]

Guns don't give protection, they bring only harm.

Not too long ago there was a news article (here in America, at least) about a young lady with a baby, who was recently widowed when her husbad died of cancer of Christmas day. Two guys tried to break into her place on New Years day, one of them armed with a 12-inch hunting knife. They were after the husband's painkillers. She was on 911 while they were trying to break in, but the moment the guy with the knife gained entry into his house, she unloaded a 12-gauge into his chest.

Imagine if she didn't have that gun.


Guns don't bring problems in and of themselves. They're just like chainsaws, knives, spatulas, and machetes. They're tools. It's the people behind the tools that are the ones that bring harm.



I've been meaning to get one myself, but I'd hate to jump through all the silly Kalifornia gun laws, for one.

[pinny]

Imagine if she didn't have that gun.

Then the burgler would've lived.
And since I can't imagine anyone using a knife on a pregnant woman, I guess it would've been better if she didn't have the gun.
A burglary isn't exactly a crime worthy of a death sentence...

I just think a gun just makes it too easy to kill, also by 'accident'. It gives the user sense of power, which can be really dangerous in certain situations.
A knife, or other hand to hand combat tools, are a lot less dangerous and gives the user a lot less chance of success.

[Forge]

Then the burgler would've lived.

And she would've ended up raped, or killed, or at the very least, assaulted. And that doesn't even take into account her baby.

And since I can't imagine anyone using a knife on a pregnant woman, I guess it would've been better if she didn't have the gun.

There are crimes of depravity everywhere. It's a sad fact that the stabbing of a pregnant woman--or a young mother of a baby in this specific case--isn't the most heinous crime I've read about.

A burglary isn't exactly a crime worthy of a death sentence...

That's true, and I'd support that it's not worthy of a death sentence were he arrested and tried in a court of law. But, this is a case of self defense, where she felt she was in mortal danger and used deadly force to prevent it from happening. And, to be completely honest, if someone was breaking into my house with a foot-long knife, I'd feel extremely threatened, too.

Not only did she have to think of her own well-being, she had to think of her baby's. It was them or him.

I just think a gun just makes it too easy to kill, also by 'accident'. It gives the user sense of power, which can be really dangerous in certain situations.

I understand the sentiment. But if I have a knife, or a baseball bat, or a tire iron, and you don't, I'd still have a feeling of power over a victim.

A knife, or other hand to hand combat tools, are a lot less dangerous and gives the user a lot less chance of success.

Arguable. I'd much rather face a n00b armed with a gun than an expert armed with a knife.


The overarching point I'd like to make that there are no bad things, just bad people. A knife, or a gun, or a car will not spontaneously become an accessory to murder. It takes a human being with malicious intent for that to happen. I mean, let's go back to that news story I was talking about (The girl's name is Sarah McKinley, if you want to google her). The man took a relatively less harmless tool, a knife, and was using it to perpetrate a crime. The young woman had a relatively deadlier gun, but owned and used it in a completely lawful fashion.

[ruprecht29]

Truly sad that people feel the need to have weapons for protection. The human race is really civilized, isn't it?

[Cman21]

see i can agree with you pinny about not wanting to have guns but you have to remember not everyone thinks like you do. some people would literally go into a widows home knowing that there is no husband to protect her just to rape and defile her and/or kill her once they are done. granted you do not see this often in westernized countries but that is how some people, humans, actually think. it is sick, i know, but you can not make such accusations about others intentions especially if they have a deadly weapon of any kind. i personally thought the same way until i got push around staring down the barrel of a gun not knowing what would happen to me and if i would ever see tomorrow.

a weapon just like any tool or technology of any kind is a double edge sword that can be used for fun, safe, good, and lawful things. and at the same time it could also be used for bad, harmful, deadly, and unlawful things. technology itself has absolutely nothing to say about how one will use it. it is 100% up to the human holding it in their hands as to how such a thing is determined to be used and it is then up to the rest of the world to decide if that action where to be for good or bad.

simply slapping a "guns = death" sticker on the issue is truly naive. guns can be used for sport just like baseball and golf. but just because the gun as a tool is more effective at killing doesnt mean that a baseball bat or golf club can not kill either. it is the human behind the tool that decides on how it will be used. so if i am going to only use this pistol for self defense, only when i know i am in mortal danger and not simply getting mugged by some punk wanting petty cash, and also going to the range to have "fun" either by myself or with others is 100% my decision. so if you find it sad that i am happy on getting a shinny new baseball bat that i can go to a batting cage and have fun hitting home runs im sorry.

[13ack.Stab]

I agree with Forge and Cman. Honestly, pinny, I think your outlook is extremely naïve and that of somebody who has always lived a cozy life, detached from the reality of precisely how dangerous the world can be.

I do not mean to come across as offensive or that I'm trying to single you out, I just want to make it clear that the world we live in is not all fun and games, and weapons of all kinds have their places in it due to humanity's many faults.

What a depressing topic to read first-thing in the morning.

[Zachimillius]

All you may argue as much as you want but most evidence suggests that there is a direct relationship between strict gun control and decreases and gun related fatalities and injury. However, mediated crimes with the intent to harm will be little impacted by strict gun control. Yet, it is important to realise that the majority of assaults (including murder) are not pre-mediated (and also by someone you know). In saying this, it is equally important to note that, cases where a gun was used for self protection, the victim is less likely to come to harm and have less property damage. Furthermore, guns themselves only marginally increase crime rates, their main harm come from escalate events. It is very easy to argue both for and against. Unfortunately to all the pro gun people out there, my first statement rings most true. Though there are cases where firearms have a positive influence on an event, it remains disproportionate to harm they cause.

[pinny]

@backstab

You can call me naive or ignorant if you want, but I would never approve of a society that requires people to be carrying murder weapons for 'protection'.

I guess we just live in different worlds, since in my reality if someone is carrying a gun he gets prosecuted. And sure it happens that a criminal gets their hands on one, but on the other hand if everyone has one I would feel even less safe since anyone could just pull their trigger and kill someone on a whim (or when they're drunk, or by accident, who knows)...

[13ack.Stab]

@backstab

You can call me naive or ignorant if you want, but I would never approve of a society that requires people to be carrying murder weapons for 'protection'.

I guess we just live in different worlds, since in my reality if someone is carrying a gun he gets prosecuted. And sure it happens that a criminal gets their hands on one, but on the other hand if everyone has one I would feel even less safe since anyone could just pull their trigger and kill someone on a whim (or when they're drunk, or by accident, who knows)...

Approve of such societies or not, they're everywhere. They aren't asking for your approval.

And prosecution typically happens after the crime. There aren't superlawyers coming to your rescue to save you from the moron that broke into your house and plans on raping you. Prosecution is a reactive measure, not a preventative one.

[eccon]

Edit:
*The text about my personal experiences has been removed due to a lack of public interest*

[pinny]

Approve of such societies or not, they're everywhere. They aren't asking for your approval.

And prosecution typically happens after the crime. There aren't superlawyers coming to your rescue to save you from the moron that broke into your house and plans on raping you. Prosecution is a reactive measure, not a preventative one.

If I don't approve of it I'm obviously just not gonna live in such a society. You're still free to live anywhere you want... there're plenty of good neighbourhoods in which you'll never see any violence.

And why don't you just use security cams and alarms? I doubt many would stay to rape you if they hear an alarm going off.
It's probably a lot safer too. Since when using guns you'll have to point it at the perp and hope they flee, or instead label yourself a murderer.

You'll never convince me that guns are the best or the only way to protect yourself.

[eccon]

Maybe the burglars only have guns, because every resident owns one (some sort of arms race).
The residents defend themselves from getting killed by the burglars and the burglars are afraid of getting shot by the residents when caught.

So, from a foreigner's point of view, the Second Amendment seems to be rather harmful to Americas domestic security.
I know you need it for the security of a free State, but it looks like todays security and freedom is only defined by how much weapons you have.
But weapons cause fear, fear causes violence and in a free state of violence you're never really free.

You will find burglars and criminals all over the world, but criminality and self defense doesn't necessarily have to be violent.
Because criminality and violence always have different roots. Roots like the right to keep and bear arms.

[13ack.Stab]

If I don't approve of it I'm obviously just not gonna live in such a society. You're still free to live anywhere you want... there're plenty of good neighbourhoods in which you'll never see any violence.

And why don't you just use security cams and alarms? I doubt many would stay to rape you if they hear an alarm going off.
It's probably a lot safer too. Since when using guns you'll have to point it at the perp and hope they flee, or instead label yourself a murderer.

You'll never convince me that guns are the best or the only way to protect yourself.

You're missing my point. There is no such thing as a crime-free, safe community, and not everybody has the option of moving to 'safer' locations.

And not once did I say that guns are the best or only way to protect oneself, please don't put words in my mouth.

Alarms can only do so much. They can scare people away and (eventually) bring the police along, but there's still a large window for damage to occur - even if the criminal will probably get caught in the end.

[Zachimillius]

Crime-free, hahahaha. Deviance, often in the form of crime, is an important aspect of growth in any society. It has, is and will be prevalent in society. Though, heinous crimes are completely different. This is more; smoking pot is a crime at the moment but, as more people smoke it, as it becomes socially acceptable, the laws defining the crime become obsolete and (although always slow to follow society) change to accommodate the shift in what is consider deviant or criminal.

stab you make a very interesting statement "Prosecution is a reactive measure, not a preventative one." It is very true. The Criminal Justice System (CJS) of most countries have developed as a reactive measure. This is why it is so important to address the social issues that led to crime. If countries were smart and invested their CJS budget into education, healthcare, wealth-fare (where needed, means tested etc, not free money that is bullshit fail system) adjusted the focus of CJS to rehabilitative rather than incarcerative... etc etc... The reforms can be quite extensive when expanded. Sadly, most voters fall for the old "we will add more police, be tougher on crime, have more prisons" speeches and ultimately led to the continuation of crime. Not to say crime can be made non-existent (well it can, abolish law and there be no crime), but reduce the harm and damaged cause to people, entities and their property.

eccon, I love how you skirt around their argument

[Animefan93]

All you guys talking about that woman that shot the robber. How do you think she felt after she killed a man. I don't think she was all that happy about it to be honest.

Also i haven't been robbed i haven't been in any situation that requires me to use a gun well in England you cannot own a gun under any circumstance, even the police don't carry them.

But i agree with everyone else. Alarms aren't going to save you from a knife or a gun its just going to help cover up the sound of you screaming after he or she has cut you and the sound of the gun shot. CCTV is only going to capture the guy or girl doing the crime but it wont matter if your dead or have a so many inch deep cut on your body.

Also Cman i hope you never have to use that gun . Just remember you said i could.

[eccon]

eccon, I love how you skirt around their argument

I was hoping for somebody would take the bait and think about something different, but oh well... Never stand between two raging bulls

[Koby]

I don't even normally keep the guns in the same house I live in, as the only gun safe I have access to is at my dads house. I don't have the guns for protection. I own the guns for target practice, having fun, and hunting. I go dove, duck, hog, and deer hunting every year. Hog you can hunt any time of year, the others all have specific seasons where you can only hunt them during that time.