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What program do you use for splitting the OP, eps, ED audios for OC?


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#1
3island18

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Hello, encoding masters. As the good sir JohnFlower has helped me by putting Afro PSG encodes into his mighty server and I'm currently downloading em, it's time to prepare the English audios to be muxed into its Order Chapter-ed episodes. I have the ep1 ready to be experimented on.

 

Anime: Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt (13 eps + 8 min OVA)

 

*********************************************************************************

 

Target encode:

Encoder: AfroDistro

vid: 1980x1080 Hi10

audio 1: uncensored version, 2.0ch 48kHz 16bit FLAC

audio 2: censored TV version *bleep*, details same as above. I think I'm gonna remove these :P

subtitles: ASS

 

eps1-10 is Order Chapter-ed with NC OP & ED. Afro also has 2nd ED, but I think this is only bonus, not OCed into the eps. at least from what I saw from my old mini MKV there's only one ED, dunno about BD ver. have to wait till my download is done. eps 11, 12, 13 only has a very short OP at the beginning, and no ED, so I think no OC here, maybe.

 

*********************************************************************************

 

Source encode in which I will get the English audio:

Encoder: Exiled-Destiny

vid: 720x480, 8bit, Funimation DVD rip

audio 1: English, AC3 5.1, 448 Kbps constant, 48KHz, 16 bits, delay relative to video: 1s 1ms. these are the ones I need to split its OP, eps, ED audios and OC em into Afro's.

audio 2: Japanese, AC3 2.0, 192 Kbps constant, 48KHz, 16 bits, no delay. obviously I don't need these.

subtitles: VobSub, SRT, full dialogue and signs+songs only for each. I'm also planning to use the SRT and convert em into ASS, use Afro ASS fonts and settings, so I got 2 subs, official DVD (which I must say more accurate) and fansub (Underwater & IB). But this for after I OC the English audio successfully, then we'll look into the subs :)

 

each eps time length is approx. 23:42 (with OP+ED). so far I observed, both encodes have the same length. so I think this should be piece of cake (?). I've managed to learn how to remove audio, particularly English, from OCed eps successfully. it was Cman's Elfen Lied upscale. good experience, wasn't so hard. this time, I wanna add an audio instead of removing. obviously this is so easy for you guys. I'm still a n00b, so I wanna do this slowly, carefully, and by the book (your book). :)

 

*********************************************************************************

 

Okay, for now my question is:

 

  1. What program do you like best/often use for splitting the OP, ED, eps audio for OC? of corz this program must support AC3, and it will not lower the audio quality after being split (5.1 to 2.0, changed bitrate, sampling rate, bit depth, etc), ie. preserve the audio original quality. and since this is OC, I think we need a precise program to cut things? by miliseconds or frame. btw Cman's Elfen Lied both audios are AC3 5.1 and have the same properties (448 Kbps constant, 48KHz, 16 bits) with E-D PSG English audio. What program did you use, sir? plz recommend me your fave program, guys. :)
  2. btw what's with the "delay relative to video: 1s 1ms"? hope this won't mess up things. A long time ago, I've done a couple of demuxing remuxing DVD VOBs. there was a program I use for adding silent audio to DTS which has a slightly shorter audio by miliseconds, usually add it at the beginning, so I don't have to set AV delay when I'm remuxing. dunno about AC3. I know we can set AV delay on MKVmerge, but can it do this too on OCed eps?
  3. should I use the same version of MKVMerge which Afro encodes used to mux for remuxing? it's v5.0.1. or I just use the latest version, v6.6.0 as I write this. I read a lot of posts here about how the newer versions are broken now, so... to be safe...

Thank you :)


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#2
JohnFlower

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1. mkvtoolnix. It can split at keyframes.

2. I'm guessing the audio is delayed by 1s 1ms?

3. Doesn't matter. I would use the newer version simply because I can.

#3
Cman21

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splitting at non-keyframes isnt possible without re-encoding. personally when i do OC's i encode each part separately and then merge the parts back together. this way there is always a keyframe where the OP/ED are supposed to start/end. but, if it is encoded all as one video then there is a possibility that a keyframe is not at the OP/ED start/end location and this will show up when you try and play the OC. because the linked OP/ED can only be inserted at keyframes.

all that said if mkvtoolnix just doesnt cut it then your kinda SOL, unless you want to re-encode everything.

#4
3island18

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Okay, I've been extracting Afro PSG and Cman Elfen Lied eps vid, audio, subs tracks to understand better OC. So far, what I understand are: basically, for each vid, audio, subs track there are separated files for the OP, main eps, ED, right? and OC combined em into 1 continuous file when we viewing it.

 

Now, I haven't understand yet how to split keyframes with MKVToolNix. just opened the program (MKVMerge GUI) and can't find which button does that. will research more into it later.

 

but from the each separated files I've extracted and saw, I think Cman way is the right one, to re-encode the English audio track, ie. make a new separated OP, main eps, ED audio tracks from the original one. at least, it's safer to follow the way Afro encoded his PSG anyway, separated files and all. That's why I'm here asking how to do it.

 

So how did you do it, Cman, sir? I mean re-encode the audio. when you say "re-encode" it doesn't necessarily mean the original file should be from DVD/BD raw, right? I hope one can re-encode from AC3 file, or in my n00b word: split the track into new 3 files (OP, main eps, ED). sorry for the confusion. when I say "split", it means to actually cut the audio track into 3 new files, not just split it "internally" in the eps (keyframes thing). I gotta get the word right.

 

name the program you usually use, and I'll look for it. :) I know there are probably thousand programs out there which can do that, but instead of blindly installing and make my registry dirty, I better ask encoding masters for their wisdom first thing first. coz I bet whatever program they recommend probably would be the best as they used it personally.

 

Fortunately PSG got no next preview thing, so the OC is pretty much straightforward and simple, OP > main > ED.

 

btw what is SOL? :P

 

Thanks. plz be patient with this n00b LOL :P


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#5
JohnFlower

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SOL = shit outta luck~
 
You should only re-encode if you have tried the mkvtoolnix thing. It is the last option you have, and is also the one you want to avoid (unless you have the BDMV as your source).

The split feature should be in the gui somewhere. If not, add something like this to the end of the CLI string it outputs:
--split frames:23,34429


#6
Cman21

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well on my version 4.0.0 of mkvmerge the split options are under the global tab. then tell it the desired split times and hit mux. this will not re-encode anything and just splits everything on a closest video keyframe to the time given. honestly i use aegisub to get the times for every keyframe by using their video previewer. each keyframe will have the time turn green and have a dash on the slider bar.

before splitting make sure you have everything in a finished state. by that i mean you have the audio, subs, and video finished and looking perfect before splitting out the OP/ED. since this is the most simple case OP-Episode-ED this will work out even if there isnt a keyframe exactly on the frame in which you need to cut. because you can easily get away with cropping out a few extra frames without people noticing. unless there is a fade in/out after/before the OP/ED, then it might be a little noticeable.

#7
Baal

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In 48kHz AC3 file one frame is 32ms long, which means you can cut that audio every 32ms.

This is about cutting audio not a video...



#8
JohnFlower

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Oh right, I didn't read the description properly.

eac3to could do all the extracting + splitting, and mkvtoolnix will mux them back together.

#9
3island18

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Okay, so I've been experimenting with MKVToolNix. Okay, so the splitting function is in Global tab, right there in the middle, duh, blind me. here's what I did:

  • first, I extract the English audio AC3 from Exiled-Destiny encode, then drag the AC3 into MKVmerge GUI
  • for Split Mode I choose "split after timecodes" coz that's the most accurate one?
  • then for the time codes, I used AegiSub as recommended, load Afro PSG vid, pull the time slider to the end, hold "right" on my keyboard till it stop moving, and there's the timecode.
  • copy-paste the time code to MKVmerge, click "Start muxing", then it'll create a MKA file. then I extract the AC3 from the MKA. English audio is ready for OC.

 

So... I did right or? that's just for the OP which is 32 sec 032 ms. haven't try for the main eps and ED, but I reckon that wouldn't be too hard. I read the F1 Help on MKVToolNix, I only need to get the correct time codes of the point where I wanna cut right, then just enter it into MKVMergeGUI, separated by comma. that means three timecodes separated by commas, the OP, main eps, ED.

 

the only slightly tricky thing is the English audio is faster by 1 sec 001 ms, compared to the Japanese audio. the Japanese audio starts after 1 sec of silence, which the video ditto, a 1 sec of black screen. so that's the time delay for. so I have to do some simple math. whatever the timecodes I got from the vid, I gotta reduce it by 1 sec 1 ms when splitting.

 

Now for handling this 1 sec faster thing. obviously if I just mux the audio right back in, it'll mess up the show. So how about:

 

  1. maybe if I set time delay on MKVmerge b4 muxing? but only add time delay  to the OP file? or also for both the main eps & ED files? can time delay actually be set on OC of 3 files anyway? or it'll mess up A/V sync...
  2. how about I just cut from the Japanese audio, but wait, it's 2.0, the English one is 5.1, bump, can't OC files with non identical properties. scratch this.
  3. or uh... maybe a program to add silent track... for that 1 sec of silence at the beginning of the OP... any recommendation? of corz I want this program to not alter any of the original audio property after adding the silent track. is EAC3TO you mentioned above any good? or at least if the program make this whole splitting thing easier than the steps above (show accurate milisecs/frame from whatever AC3 file right away), I'll take it anyway.

 

what do you guys think?


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#10
Cman21

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almost, the timecode is the time in which it makes a cut. for you the OP-Ep-ED there are only 2 cuts, at the end of the OP and the beginning of the ED.

again do not do any cutting until the episode all muxed together as one seamless perfect file, with the corrected audio, both audio tracks, subtitles, everything. THEN you load that and put in your 2 timecodes to remove the OP/ED. once they are all cut simply pick one OP/ED from the series as your linked files.

#11
Baal

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what do you guys think?

 

Here's your simplest solution:

1. Write down the length of OP.

2. Write down the length of the episode

3. Drop the OP to mkvmerge

4. Append it with the ep and ED (ofc, if you don't want that censored audio then uncheck it)

5. Mux

6. Drop this new file to mkvmerge

7. Add Eng audio

8. Go to "Format Specific options" of the AC3 and add 1001ms delay (or if you have "delay 1001" at the end of filename it will be added automaticaly)

9. Split everything with the timecodes: "length of OP","OP+main ep"

 

This will work if the only syncing that the eng audio requires is that 1001ms delay.



#12
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Wait... Let's confirm something here: do you want to keep this release as OC or not?
Honestly speaking, it isn't worth it. 130 odd megabytes is nothing when your files are already 2gb+...

Baal, that wont work. The original release is OC'd, so there is no easy way to fix it. However, I think you can add files as long as they are in all 'chapters'.
This is why I mentioned eac3to... You will likely end up manually splitting the English audio and adding it to each chapter with mkvmerge.

#13
3island18

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hi, thank you for your detailed responses, guys.

 

the timecode is the time in which it makes a cut. for you the OP-Ep-ED there are only 2 cuts, at the end of the OP and the beginning of the ED.

again do not do any cutting until the episode all muxed together as one seamless perfect file, with the corrected audio, both audio tracks, subtitles, everything.

 

OK, 2 timecodes, I get it now. cool. btw you have repeatedly reminded me to "not do any cutting until the episode all muxed together as one seamless perfect file". so are you suggesting that I should join the OP, main eps, ED files into 1 file first, with vid, audios, subs into 1 file. then after that, I make the cut, then link the just cut OP, ED, and episodes? er, how to do that? MKVToolNix? "Append" I think?

 

Here's your simplest solution:

 

OK, I get it. what you mean is, drag & drop the OP, main eps, ED into MKVMerge and append these into one file, then remux em into a new mkv file. then add the English audio and set the 1001 delay. this way, I'll create new files with each eps containing OP ED, not OC anymore. and if I add Cman method at the end, I'll split these newly joined files, the OP, ED, and each eps, so then I can link those into OC again. but is the time delay will stay there then, after I split the files? But anyway, as John has asked:

 

do you want to keep this release as OC or not?

 

My answer: of course yes, I wanna keep it as OC :) the OP ED are No Credits, so there's no merit in rejoining the OP+ED into each eps.

And I agree with John here. In my mind, this will involving: cutting the OP & ED English audio once, then each main eps English audio. then add/mux those English audios into the OCed Afro encode files. as long as I use the exact same file, AC3 with same properties, split, and be meticulous with the timecodes, I think they'll link nicely? then the next step would only involve editing the XML files inside each eps for the OC, ie. relinking. right?

I already downloaded eac3to and experimenting with it for a while, a neat program indeed, tho' the GUI isn't so hot. I also dug up my old portable HDDs to look for that one particular program I used for adding delay/silent track for DTS way back then when I still loved to tinkering with DVD VOB files, burn em into DVDs, etc. the program name is DelayCut. and it works on AC3 too. I think its function is pretty much the same with eac3to, but with easier to understand GUI for n00b like me. and I don't think any of these program would alter/break any audio property, right? I mean, it's only adding delay, not re-encode.

So to sum up: for the OP, I'll cut it from the AC3, with correct duration of corz, then add +1001 ms delay/silent track with the program above, so I get a new AC3 with the same length with the Japanese audio. then, cut the ED, each eps, mux those English AC3 into each proper file. edit the xml for relinking. done. correct? is joining each eps with OP+ED, then re-cut really necessary?

Anyway, I think I already have enough the knowledge and tools I need to do this now. thank you for your responses, guys. I've learned a lot. now, it's time to finish this once and for all. as soon as I got the spare time. yeah. Saturday night. :P

Will report back here if I bump into something. Thanks.


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#14
JohnFlower

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You don't make much sense here... Your answer and description of what you want do not match up. For references sake, you have 3 possible outcomes after this:
1. OP, ED and main episode are all one file.
2. OP and ED are separate from the episode. Release plays as OC.
3. OP and ED are separate from the episode. Release does not play as OC.

As your description matches number 2, that is what I will describe:
First, demux your English track with eac3to.
Second, use eac3to to edit (-edit) the track and split it at the right times.
Third, I'm not too sure if this works without doing anything else, but... Mux the files together (don't forget your delay). The English track must be in all parts (OP, ED and episode).

And that's pretty much it.

#15
Baal

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OK, 2 timecodes, I get it now. cool. btw you have repeatedly reminded me to "not do any cutting until the episode all muxed together as one seamless perfect file". so are you suggesting that I should join the OP, main eps, ED files into 1 file first, with vid, audios, subs into 1 file. then after that, I make the cut, then link the just cut OP, ED, and episodes? er, how to do that? MKVToolNix? "Append" I think?

I think that Cman thought that You are making OC files from "normal" episodes.

 

...but is the time delay will stay there then, after I split the files? ...

...is joining each eps with OP+ED, then re-cut really necessary?...
 

Yes, it will.

 

No, it's not necessary. I forgot that OP is NC so my solution wont work because there are most likely some extra frames(but if Afro made his NCOP match the standard one then it could work).

 

So to sum up: for the OP, I'll cut it from the AC3, with correct duration of corz, then add +1001 ms delay/silent track with the program above, so I get a new AC3 with the same length with the Japanese audio.

 

Since the OP is NC then there's probability that it wont sync with 1001ms delay.



#16
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Baal: Your solution wont work because Afro's release is OC'd. You cannot simply append tracks back together and expect it to work. Whether the OP/ED is NC or not is a totally different matter.

#17
Baal

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... Afro's release is OC'd. You cannot simply append tracks back together and expect it to work...

So, all OC'd releases use different encoding settings for OP/ED? (I don't like OC releases so I don't download them).



#18
Cman21

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OK, 2 timecodes, I get it now. cool. btw you have repeatedly reminded me to "not do any cutting until the episode all muxed together as one seamless perfect file". so are you suggesting that I should join the OP, main eps, ED files into 1 file first, with vid, audios, subs into 1 file. then after that, I make the cut, then link the just cut OP, ED, and episodes? er, how to do that? MKVToolNix? "Append" I think?

I think that Cman thought that You are making OC files from "normal" episodes.


ya i thought that, got a little confused as to which source you were wanting to keep.

So, all OC'd releases use different encoding settings for OP/ED? (I don't like OC releases so I don't download them).


i use a lower CRF value which is fine during playback but messes up things when you try to append. i know of many other groups that also give the OP/ED higher bitrates or lower crf values to increase the quality as the OP/ED tend to be very active and can use the extra bitrate.

#19
3island18

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Hi, sorry for gone so long. err shit happened IRL.

You don't make much sense here... Your answer and description of what you want do not match up.

Aw crap, sorry for typo above argh >_< Yes, yes, yes. Choice number two, I wanna keep it as OC. fixed my post above. :P

 

Yeah, OK. so, just now, I cut the English audio OP, main eps, ED; add delay on the OP audio; edit the UID thing on the OC xml inside the main eps, ie. relinking, remuxed to each related Afro file. and it plays on MPC, yay, OC worked. whee. Eps 1 down, 12 more. just need to wait for the Exiled-Destiny download completes for more English audios.

 

Thanks for the help, guys.

 

I just finally completed the Afro download btw (thank you for your help, John!). BD ver is pretty cool. at first I was kinda worry when I saw the credits appear towards the end of the show in eps 11, 12, 13, still inside the story, with dialogue and all, coz there's actually no ending in those 3 eps, so the creator somehow must insert their staff rolls somewhere. that's what I saw in my old mini MKV anyway, prolly from HDTV/DVD source. but on BD, it's clean, no credit, instead now, there's new 2nd ED vid specifically made for those 3 eps where they can put their staff roll. and of corz Afro uses the NC one. cool. the run time is 25:43 now, a little longer.

 

So to sum up, Afro encode indeed is the best encode available now for PSG, IMO. good vid with no credits at all, FLAC for audio, and the super pretty subs! money spent well (on the internet). :)

 

Eps 13 is kinda tricky. the OC goes like this: OP, main eps, ED, epilogue. where epilogue is actually in the same one file with the main eps. in other words, if I move the OP & ED files, and leave the main eps file alone, and play it, it'll play the main eps then straight to the epilogue. so the ED is actually inserted in the middle of the main eps at certain timecode by the OC. Hope I won't mess up the timecode when I split the English audio later.

 

Alright. thank you, guys. Will report back here and ask for more of your wisdom if I fail too many times :P


Well, it's not MAL, but here's my Anime List. Check it out. Maybe we have the same taste, yeah! B)

 

https://www.facebook.com/notes/susanto-ph%C4%81ng-k%C4%ABt-l%C5%ABng/incomplete-list-of-my-best-animes/580515338649298



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