Jump to content

Welcome to AnimePassion
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Btooom! discussion


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1
Will

Will

    Rurouni

  • VIP
  • 319 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 06:49 AM
  • LocationSydney, Australia
As promised in the Accel World thread.

I haven't bothered to weigh in on the whole Btooom thing. Largely because it's off-topic, but mostly 'cause I'm lazy. Zach's rape stuff is kind of interesting though, and it relates to why Btooom is a bad show (shut up, it is).

Hmm rape scenes should not be shunned from anime or any medium. It can be a very powerful tool towards plot and characterisation, especially in drama, detective, slice of (real but fucked up) life and so on. It is all about how it is represented; it should be shown as a very mature theme, rather than something that is not explored by the show, trivialised, ignored and what have you.

Examples of good rape (hahahaha that sounds so so sooooo horrible) scenes; in Kite, Perfect Blue, kind of creepy semi rapey scene in Paprika, Berserk (that scene is not a 'close upy' as Kite but so much worse), not as much seeing rape but exploring the issue in EF: A Tale of Melodies, similar thing is done in Now and Then, Here and There (and better done then Ef I reckon)....ahh! Elfen Lied... hmmm that is all that comes to mind at the moment.

It is not so much wanting to see rape but, wanting to see rape used correctly in a series. I enjoy rape scenes.... When they move me to tears, and I start yelling how unfair it is. Or they make me disgusted at the reality of life, the nature of some people, when it makes me yell in rage, thrash about on my couch in frustration... when it is emotive and meaningful.

I certainly do not enjoy rape scenes because they what they are, scenes of rape. That is fucked up and as Hark0n said, there is hentai for that.

I do not remember any rape scenes in Accel World but, that crazy clothes stealing pumpkin head dude at the beginning kind of alluded to the abuse possible in the virtual world. I can imagine it would still be pretty trumatic if your avatar was raped... and you cannot log out.


Zach, I think you're right that rape can be a powerful dramatic tool, but I think that's kind of half the problem. It's just too easy. It's an out for bad writers, like gore and psychopaths (hey, look at that, Btooom has all of those things). Can't think of a good way to up the stakes, or give your (almost always female) character a traumatic back-story? Easy! Just use rape. It's cheap, and exploitative, and after you've seen it a few times it becomes incredibly boring as well.

To be fair, Zach, all the examples you mentioned were good ones, or at least not offensive or exploitative. I feel there should be a Godwin's law for rape in fiction though, because more often than not its presence marks the point where it's safe to drop a series.

To make it even more offensive in Btooom, Himiko goes on to be the very image of the afraid-of-men, feminist nazi so commonly used to brush off feminism as extremist and born of irrationality and trauma, only to then go all deredere after the lead saves her useless ass a bunch of times. The fact that the series makes her practically 100% burden doesn't help either.

The extreme male gaze during the scenes doesn't really help either. But hey, at least it's a better take on game-turned-reality than SAO.
Posted Image
Anime-Planet.com - anime | manga | reviews

#2
dudefromLT

dudefromLT

    Cardcaptor

  • Inactive Member
  • PipPip
  • 337 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 10:49 PM
  • LocationLithuania
You just totally pi***** on my two best recent seen shows. I'm :rant:.

I haven't bothered to weigh in on the whole Btooom thing. Largely because it's off-topic, but mostly 'cause I'm lazy. Zach's rape stuff is kind of interesting though, and it relates to why Btooom is a bad show (shut up, it is).


And there is nothing to weight really. Not like my dear Himiko was raped or anything. She is still pure! And being "almost" means nothing. I almost won 1000000. So what? Not like I have it.

Showing something intimate (in a bad way) but not going all way (so to say) is not bad. Except for hentai.

#3
Will

Will

    Rurouni

  • VIP
  • 319 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 06:49 AM
  • LocationSydney, Australia
You're right, being very nearly raped (multiple times, at that) has no psychological consequences at all, as observed by Himiko's totally unchanged behaviour. Silly me.

Oh yeah, purity, of course, because that's why rape is traumatic, losing purity. I'm sure non-virgins are totally cool with being raped <_<.

So it's ok to show rape, as long as there's no penetration, is that what you're saying? There's nothing offensive or exploitative about watching showing a guy ripping off a girls clothes and sticking his face in her crotch with the very clear intention to rape her. As long as he doesn't succeed, it's fine? Is that honestly what you're saying? Using that scenario as a cheap catalyst for drama, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that?
Posted Image
Anime-Planet.com - anime | manga | reviews

#4
dudefromLT

dudefromLT

    Cardcaptor

  • Inactive Member
  • PipPip
  • 337 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 10:49 PM
  • LocationLithuania

You're right, being very nearly raped (multiple times, at that) has no psychological consequences at all, as observed by Himiko's totally unchanged behaviour. Silly me.


I'm not saying that. As we can see Himiko has some trauma, but... Being almost raped doesn't mean totally raped. In hentai dictionary we call it "teasing". Folding breast, su**** nipples and such. I won't argue about that being traumatic, however it really isn't something that should be put in one place as being raped. In series heroine is teased, not fu****. Her friends were. Though than again, it wasn't shown directly (in action I mean). So it's not a big deal, as you saying it is,

Oh yeah, purity, of course, because that's why rape is traumatic, losing purity. I'm sure non-virgins are totally cool with being raped .


If some gorgeous girl would decide to rape me, I doubt that I would be against it. Dunno about you...

So it's ok to show rape, as long as there's no penetration, is that what you're saying? There's nothing offensive or exploitative about watching showing a guy ripping off a girls clothes and sticking his face in her crotch with the very clear intention to rape her. As long as he doesn't succeed, it's fine? Is that honestly what you're saying? Using that scenario as a cheap catalyst for drama, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that?


Yes, you are absolutely right! I don't see anything wrong in that. It just gives more flavor to show. And I like it! Well, I'm not saying that that is good in all cases (dunno, what I would say if Himiko was twelve years or so; though in H it would be O.K.). Either way it is just part of the show. And as characters being killed for just a game, I don't see anything bad in trying to play "papa" and "mama" as well.
Now... if "fat ass" had succeeded maybe I would think otherwise.

#5
Will

Will

    Rurouni

  • VIP
  • 319 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 06:49 AM
  • LocationSydney, Australia
I'm actually at a loss for words. If that's what you think, not even gonna waste my time, bro. Think what you wanna think.
Posted Image
Anime-Planet.com - anime | manga | reviews

#6
13ack.Stab

13ack.Stab

    Assassin

  • Administrators
  • 1,719 posts
  • 16 thanks
  • Local time: 03:49 PM
  • LocationMichigan, USA

I'm actually at a loss for words.


This was actually my reaction as well, but I decided to not say anything. :sweat:

Posted Image


#7
dudefromLT

dudefromLT

    Cardcaptor

  • Inactive Member
  • PipPip
  • 337 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 10:49 PM
  • LocationLithuania
People, people why so much negativity? This is only anime! And 2D for that matter. It's a damn drawings. You simply are taking things too seriously. Maybe you dislike it, but don't compare it to real life issues. I don't. Now if it was something shown on "youtube" filmed in actual life with hidden camera and things would have been shown as it was shown in "Btooom!" I would talk differently, but now...

P.S. Someone, backup me please. Please... :(

#8
Zachimillius

Zachimillius

    エッチ様

  • VIP
  • 2,282 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 07:49 AM
  • LocationSydney, Australia

If some gorgeous girl would decide to rape me, I doubt that I would be against it. Dunno about you...

/facepalm
It is not rape if you are not against it.


It is certainly true that rape is the penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina, mouth or anus, so 'teasing' is certainly not rape. However, in the eyes of most laws it certainly called the same thing, (aggravated) sexual assault. Some legal systems include the reverse; forcing a sexual organ into a vagina mouth or anus, of course this is more rare, less to do with statutes and more common law in terms of it s legality.

Sexual assault is any involuntary sexual act where the victim has been threatened, coerced, or forced to engage against their will, and of course it also includes any sexual act not consented. Be it tit sucking, arse fucking, forced kissing, broomstick penetrating, or sexual torture like using the pear of anguish [is so bad], forced touching as well, etc .

The impact this has on the victim varies, rape is hardly 'the worst', any form of aggravated sexual assault tends to have the same or similar impact on a victim. So it may not be rape, indeed it could be far from rape, a little bit of molesting here and there, but 'teasing' is still a serious thing.


There is a certain fixation with 'rape play' in Japanese media; see mainstream movies, TV, anime, books, and of course pornography and so on. Women are often seen as need a little bit of pressure, or men to be more forceful in attaining the kiss, love, affection and so on. It freaks me out a little to be honest, where the girl gets teary and angry at first ( do not be fooled, those are not suppose to be always tears of joy, that is a cultural assumption, the fair maiden shedding tears of happiness being lovingly kissed or embraced by her prince charming, this motif penetrated western media to the core, so much that it is reverberated in real life ubiquitously) but is forced to accept the man's love, and she ends up being happy in the end. Hey ho! subservient much.... I could bore you by pointing out various cultural and historical factors leading to this (i.e the influence of Crazy China and Confucianism, the position of women post-Heian up until the Meiji era and then the social rhythms of gender roles in the modern era as well) but screw that, I am going back to watching anime, because not all anime is retarded.

Posted Image


#9
Will

Will

    Rurouni

  • VIP
  • 319 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 06:49 AM
  • LocationSydney, Australia
^^ That post kicked ass. Thanks for that, Zach.
Posted Image
Anime-Planet.com - anime | manga | reviews

#10
dudefromLT

dudefromLT

    Cardcaptor

  • Inactive Member
  • PipPip
  • 337 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 10:49 PM
  • LocationLithuania
Australians against single Lithuanian. That isn't very fair. But whatever... I won't back down.

Just so to be clear: it is anime we are talking about, and to be more precise "Btooom!". This is not the real life issues we are dealing with. Well, at least I had in my mind all this time. And when I talk about "drawings" on paper sheet (I wonder, does anime is still being done like that anymore? :?: ) stuff like seen in "Btooom!" isn't big a deal. I will agree with that fact that if it were in real world it would be bad and punishable by law, but not in this case. Now we just see attempt to rape (animated attempt to do that). So what? Does it make this show so bad? You simply could call it some kind form of art, like... hentai. Unique flavor which makes show more dramatic. Sadly not all can understand that art. I can!

It is not rape if you are not against it.


O.K. Here I was wrong. Sorry.

...screw that, I am going back to watching anime, because not all anime is retarded.


So like what. "Btoom!" is retarded? Any other shows that would fall into this category? I myself the only show that could call not very appropriate was "Blood-C". For some reason couldn't feel any happiness when saw schoolgirls being killed (in brutal way) by monsters. It was quite shocking.

P.S. Kinda feels like we are out of topic.
So to return to right pass: I liked "Btooom!" Good show. Animation nice, story wise, characters the way I like it. 9/10. Was missing something to get 10 points. Dunno, what, but what could have been made better was ending. Good point: obviously second season will be some day. Bad point: incomplete ending; hell knows how long it will take to produce second season (if of course that will ever happen). Other than that I liked this show. And all scenes were good. Even those questionable ones.

#11
Zachimillius

Zachimillius

    エッチ様

  • VIP
  • 2,282 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 07:49 AM
  • LocationSydney, Australia
I cannot strictly say Btoom! in its entirety is retarded without watching it myself. However, if sexual assault is brushed aside casually, that is retarded. If it was done more tastefully, say as a reflection of the state minor sexual assult cases are often trivialised, particularly by younger people, i.e attractive guy reckons he can do what he wants with females and decided to be a little forceful, against her will, she submits. Everyone goes about there business. However, it is portrayed in such a manor that it is making a statement a long the lines of 'Woah, hold up, did you see that. how people just trivialise this important issue?" Thus raising awareness and so on. Then excellent! clap clap to that!

I am just contributing to the discussion, supporting issues that I take an interest in with out strictly saying Btoom! is good or bad, hoping someone can apply more knowledge to the series. Of course there is some inference that Btoom is bad...Still, that aside, my points have been made because often these arguments lack some kind of fixture to reality. Our world of fiction is a aspect of our reality, to say it is not real is to say it does not exist, when it certainly does. Of course, in a world we created, with people who exist only in our screens and imaginations. Still, it is an aspect of our reality, it helps shape and define it. It is easy to dismiss this, however that would be a rather ignorant position, in this day and age the concept of Hyperreality is a very relevant and applicable concept. If anyone is interested check out Jean Baudrillard. He is one of my favourite academics, fucking boss sociologist, cultural theorist mad dog who is all post-structuralist on this shit.

Posted Image


#12
dudefromLT

dudefromLT

    Cardcaptor

  • Inactive Member
  • PipPip
  • 337 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 10:49 PM
  • LocationLithuania
O.K. That was deep... :coffee: You talk like some kind of professor from university... B) I'm not match for you... :sweat:

#13
deadmanwalking1

deadmanwalking1

    Genin

  • Inactive Member
  • 58 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 03:19 AM
:-| .... I have not completed the series, but i have crossed the scene between the fat guy and blondie... I would also say that many scenes were done tactlessly, i think they thought that if they had some shock value, it would save up on time taken on trying to build characters, as then all character mannerisms would then be attributed to the traumatic event or series of events in the characters life. It is an easy way to build the character as depicting the shocking/traumatic event hardly takes time and after that it is a stereotypical character. Also, the outrage that the scene may have generated would also have served as an advertising gimick. And to still preserve the fan base of the blondie, they made sure there was no penetration, so that for all the die hard fans, their boobilicous blondie was still pure and blah blah... What was irritating was that, they showed the event and that was that. As we are talking on shock value, the relationship between the kid and the dad also didn't sit well with me, No motivation for the actions of the Dad.

And every art form is just a reflection of reality. "In the sea of creativity, is the water of imagination and salt of reality" - me

#14
pta307

pta307

    Team Dai-Gurren Soldier

  • Members
  • 43 posts
  • 59 thanks
  • Local time: 03:49 AM
  • LocationHCM, Vietnam
It was knowned as online virtual players. Until one day, they was kidnapped by a secret organization and brought to deserted island isolated from the outside world. Here, they were forced take part a life-and-death game. The players must kill and collect chips from other players to escape this game. This had fierce, gloomy, bloody and adult scenes.



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users