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Copyright vs Subtitles?


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18 replies to this topic

#1
Neutron_Collapse

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According to this article, there is a possibility that if you are a subtitler and making subs for other languages on TV shows and films, you are violating copyright now that the site owner has been fined in Norway.

Should the the subtitler community for anime be concerned? I am not so sure as it has always been a grey area and they have been translating/scripting/formatting for many years now for thousands of series and films to localize the material in dozens of languages for people who don't understand the source language and so far, I haven't seen any massice take downs. But I do fear that possibility however. If that ever happens, well known encoders will be out too.
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#2
13ack.Stab

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That makes no sense. I could understand if the subtitle files themselves were under copyright and were still being shared, but I have to admit that I'm honestly a little confused and worried if fan-made subtitles were considered copyright infringement. I mean, it's not as if adding subtitles takes credit for someone else's work; if anything, you're just expanding a given product and extending its lifecycle. :rolleyes:

Damn people and their anachronistic business models.

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#3
Hark0n

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Judging from the article, large part of subtitles probably were made by title owners or companies connected to distribution. The amount of subtitles just seems too high for just fan made materials. If that is the case, than that makes sense.
Also the subtitles were associated to illegally downloadable copies, so it could also be aimed to decrease illegal downloads of the movies themselves.
Regardless of the reason, it looks silly to prevent subtitle distribution and not the movies.
As for anime, Funimation seems to be only company that has brought subtitled anime downloading to court, but it was about the whole package not just the subs.

#4
Zachimillius

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Useless. Just useless. What backstab says seems right. I think it will be very hard to say it is a copyright in infringement. But more stupid things have been taken to court and won.

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#5
WaveZero

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Wow just read the article, if I was that judge I would've told the media company to just shut the fuck up. LOL Seriously I would, since this is utter stupid.

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#6
Zachimillius

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I know! Unless cases wasting court time should get fined like areas of Europe

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#7
Koby

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Yes, even fanmade subtitles has always been in the gray area to illegal.
FUNimation has even given out C&D orders to fansub groups that didn't release anything but .ass scripts (no video), simply because it was subtitles for a show they had the license to.

This is nothing new.


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#8
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Copy right protection is getting absurd. I was reading an article in the paper how, piracy (illegal downloads) as a significant impact on revenue, it was going on and on about it. Yet they never provided any evidence for it. The few peer-reviewed studies avaliable suggest it acttually has negligable to positive effects on revenue.

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#9
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People who pirate were never going to buy it in the first place, so really there have not lost any sales (it just company BS).
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#10
Koby

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People who pirate were never going to buy it in the first place, so really there have not lost any sales (it just company BS).

Or, we buy what we liked, only after first having had pirated.


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You bastards You stole my sisters horn and stole my reason to live, but that wasnt enough?

Now you have come here, and steal my reason to die, too?!


#11
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Ya, it is what many people do. I have spent several 1000 on buying my favorites, after downloading them to see if I want to buy it. Though I cannot afford to keep my purchases up with my viewing of pirated content.

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#12
Chaossaturn

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Or, we buy what we liked, only after first having had pirated.


Yer true but still it proves it company BS, lets say for easy numbers that 10 people pirate a anime and of the 10, 3 people buy the anime. The Company would say that there lost 10 sales but really there only lost 7 sales and gained 3 sales (I'm basically saying that companys make out that pirating is worse then it is beacuse its to there advantage)
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#13
Zachimillius

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That is incorrect though. Out of the 7 people who pirated it and did no later buy it. Most of that 7 would not have bought it even if it could not be pirated. If I could not download load TBs of movies and TV shows, I just would never have them. They like assuming that just because someone pirated something, they would buy it if they could not get it for free.

If you can read German, check this out. I use to have a copy of the acutally study but cannot find it.

Edit: Or use google translater and read this in English

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#14
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That is incorrect though. Out of the 7 people who pirated it and did no later buy it. Most of that 7 would not have bought it even if it could not be pirated. If I could not download load TBs of movies and TV shows, I just would never have them. They like assuming that just because someone pirated something, they would buy it if they could not get it for free.

If you can read German, check this out. I use to have a copy of the acutally study but cannot find it.

Edit: Or use google translater and read this in English


True I have already said that but not as good in my post before that one:

People who pirate were never going to buy it in the first place, so really there have not lost any sales (it just company BS).


I was just agreeing with kody what he said was also true. I dont read german but I will give the translated version a read when I have more time. Are you german zach?
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#15
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Sorry, I missed your post!

I am SWISS!!!german. Got dual citzenship and everything! Dad was born in Switzerland, mum went for citzenship after marriage. I had to confirm my Swiss National status at 18 or lose it, which I did... Not to sure if my sister did that though.... Sadly, my deutsch skills are of tourist survival level at best :(

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#16
13ack.Stab

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That is incorrect though. Out of the 7 people who pirated it and did no later buy it. Most of that 7 would not have bought it even if it could not be pirated. If I could not download load TBs of movies and TV shows, I just would never have them. They like assuming that just because someone pirated something, they would buy it if they could not get it for free.


There's also the word-of-mouth factor; even if someone doesn't purchase something and only pirates it, they'll advertise it if they like it. So the company is still making money indirectly.

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#17
Zachimillius

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Yes, it certainly does act has advertising. I am sure many of us here have only watched anime (and even bought it later) that has been recommended through the pirate world.

some examples at a more interpersonal level:
"You must download this series and check it out"
"Grab that off my HDD, I think you will like it"

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#18
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I have always wondered if an anime is not copyrighted in your country if it is pirating to download it as your not breaking the copyright for that anime as its not copyrighted in your country?
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#19
Koby

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I have always wondered if an anime is not copyrighted in your country if it is pirating to download it as your not breaking the copyright for that anime as its not copyrighted in your country?

Regardless you are breaking Japan's copyright, and it is still illegal. It just depends on if your country allows you to be tried on your own soil for something off shores or will let you be extradited to face charges in the country of origin.


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You bastards You stole my sisters horn and stole my reason to live, but that wasnt enough?

Now you have come here, and steal my reason to die, too?!



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