121 replies to this topic

[Rebound]

this has turned into a japanese dub vs english dub thread...

lol pretty much!

As the person who made this thread, I actually did not mind the change of topic seeing that it was quite entertaining to listen to.

PS: I would have to add to the argument that an anime will always be an anime regardless if it was dubbed into other language other then Japanese. That makes no logical sense to not call it an anime just because it has been translated into another language. As a dub watcher, I actually do not mind if a few of the translations were lost/not translated literally because by the end of the day, the translation makes perfect sense to a native english speaker like myself. In terms of the dub acting debate, I would have to agree with Forge that it is all about preference. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to watch an anime or anything for that matter. If you enjoy watching subs then good for you. If you like sticking to dub that that is just as fine. This whole debate thing is a lose-lose situation meaning that no side can win against the other side. Just stick to what you like and screw what everyone else thinks.

[eccon]

I like turtles.

[Rebound]

me too

[lightningblade]

I like cat girls

[baldur]

I like cat girls

[WaveZero]

@pinny, if only you watched the DBZ abridged series... You would understand how awesome dub is, especially on that. xD

[eccon]

@pinny, if only you watched the DBZ abridged series... You would understand how awesome dub is, especially on that. xD

Stop it, Angelo. This thread is now hijacked by cat girls just kidding




Edit:

On a serious note:
Japanese dubs should be the first choice if you understand them, because most anime are intended to sound like this by the producer/director.
If you don't understand it but are interested in the Japaneses culture, read the subs.
If the subs are too americanized for your taste, it's time to learn the language of your favorite culture.
If you are too lazy to read, regardless of whether you are interested in Japan or not, watch the English dubs.
English dubs certainly weren't the best in the past, but they have become better and better ever since.
Japanese VA's may be better as certain people claim, but who really knows when only a few can actually understand them.

We all have different opinions and preferences, but we have one thing in common: we do love anime.
Anime is like Asian food which we all enjoy. Some use their hands to eat, some use a fork, and others prefer chopsticks.
Is using hands stupid? Is a fork superior? Are chopsticks more authentic?
The Asian food will always be the same, no matter how you consume it

Don't let something like this get between us.
Peace!

[WaveZero]

Hahaha, yeah but seriously I love that dub. Best fan dub parody of DBZ IMO!

[Zachimillius]

ASIAN FOOD WILL NOT ALWAYS BE THE SAME!!

We only have to look to it's past, here are some brief articles which show us this:

http://en.wikipedia....apanese_cuisine

http://en.wikipedia....Chinese_cuisine

http://asiarecipe.com/cuisine.html

http://en.wikipedia....i/Asian_cuisine


http://www.yamasa.or...apanese_29.html


Food is forever changing!! A reflection of socio-cultural, historical and environmental factors! A great Japanese example is seen with the advent of the Meiji revolution and of course the end of World War II. Teppanyaki would not exist if it was not for a change in Japanese cuisine through western influence. This of course includes okonomiyaki and yakisoba!!! And there are many more examples too!


Edit: I skipped over the "...no matter how you consume it part"

[Cman21]

umm i think that is for another thread.....

[lightningblade]

fail zach complete fail lol

[Zachimillius]

...On a different note, I like animepassion encoders!

[SunnY]

i always download mini-mkv

and thats why i like Skylord

i would not come to this forum if skylord didn't invited me

[grotesquery]

I apologize for taking the thread off topic again . . . is the "other" topic being continued in a different thread?

I’d like to underscore a complication concerning the relation between “localization” and “understanding.” Just as an example, if the following (literacy) statistics are credible, namely, that “about 70% of high school students need some form of remediation,” it’s clear that being a native speaker of the language does not guarantee good command of the language. As such, these people may need “dubs” or “localizations” for something written in their native tongue (e.g. SparkNotes). In a way, then, it is dubious to assume that the “original” language is necessarily offers a more accurate rendition of artistic intention since it always already depends on audience that is suitably primed to decipher the message (even then, there is likely to be varying interpretation among a competent audience).

We can take a related example to further illuminate the issue: A few years ago The Washington Post had violinist, Joshua Bell (The Red Violin), participate in an experiment where he would play as a street performer in the L'Enfant Plaza metro station in Washington, D.C. He got a mere $32.17 for 43 minutes of playing--a performer who is worth tens of thousands more ($1000 a minute, to be specific, according to The Washington Post article). It stands to reason that Bell’s (usual) ability to command such high prices has as much to do with raw as it does with systemic factors that cultivate a receptive and cooperative (even if potentially nonetheless ignorant) audience. Without diminishing Bell’s accomplishments in any way, we might say that the various institutional and market forces function precisely as a kind of “dub” or “localization” that translates (for the insufficiently initiated audience, including many of those who would pay full price for an “official” concert) the otherwise unintelligible performative brilliance into something more tangible (e.g. cultural capital).

My point is there is no question that Bell is the authentic real deal, or, in other words, the “original,” but even such undisputed genius often requires a “translation” of sorts. Does this “slaughter” or otherwise distort his performance? Insofar as one might not be able to properly understand the performance without such assistance, it could be said the at least some of the audience is getting a distorted or manipulated experience, but on the other hand, without this institutional curation, the same audience might lose all access to such world-class performances--unless we are prepared to insist that the prerequisite to attending a concert of such high caliber is to first undertake years of training to acquire the discernment necessary to identify the talent beneath the veneer of marketing. In this context, it seems that there is at least prima facie legitimacy for the localization of anime, and the more crucial question is rather how to maintain a reasonable degree of refinement and sophistication in the process so that it is not reduced to a crude flourish.

[Hark0n]

I apologize for taking the thread off topic again . . . is the "other" topic being continued in a different thread?

I’d like to underscore a complication concerning the relation between “localization” and “understanding.” Just as an example, if the following (literacy) statistics are credible, namely, that “about 70% of high school students need some form of remediation,” it’s clear that being a native speaker of the language does not guarantee good command of the language. As such, these people may need “dubs” or “localizations” for something written in their native tongue (e.g. SparkNotes). In a way, then, it is dubious to assume that the “original” language is necessarily offers a more accurate rendition of artistic intention since it always already depends on audience that is suitably primed to decipher the message (even then, there is likely to be varying interpretation among a competent audience).

We can take a related example to further illuminate the issue: A few years ago The Washington Post had violinist, Joshua Bell (The Red Violin), participate in an experiment where he would play as a street performer in the L'Enfant Plaza metro station in Washington, D.C. He got a mere $32.17 for 43 minutes of playing--a performer who is worth tens of thousands more ($1000 a minute, to be specific, according to The Washington Post article). It stands to reason that Bell’s (usual) ability to command such high prices has as much to do with raw as it does with systemic factors that cultivate a receptive and cooperative (even if potentially nonetheless ignorant) audience. Without diminishing Bell’s accomplishments in any way, we might say that the various institutional and market forces function precisely as a kind of “dub” or “localization” that translates (for the insufficiently initiated audience, including many of those who would pay full price for an “official” concert) the otherwise unintelligible performative brilliance into something more tangible (e.g. cultural capital).

My point is there is no question that Bell is the authentic real deal, or, in other words, the “original,” but even such undisputed genius often requires a “translation” of sorts. Does this “slaughter” or otherwise distort his performance? Insofar as one might not be able to properly understand the performance without such assistance, it could be said the at least some of the audience is getting a distorted or manipulated experience, but on the other hand, without this institutional curation, the same audience might lose all access to such world-class performances--unless we are prepared to insist that the prerequisite to attending a concert of such high caliber is to first undertake years of training to acquire the discernment necessary to identify the talent beneath the veneer of marketing. In this context, it seems that there is at least prima facie legitimacy for the localization of anime, and the more crucial question is rather how to maintain a reasonable degree of refinement and sophistication in the process so that it is not reduced to a crude flourish.

Incapability to read should be considered a bad thing and it points to low education standards. One of its cause is the fact that reading skills are not so important and students don't read much beside internet usage. I am not native English speaker, but I have no problems reading subs if they are timed properly.
Any culture consists of many things, language is just one of them. Changing one aspect will not make one culture to be fully understandable by other. Dubs make anime more available to wider audience, but additional knowledge is still necessary to understand another culture. Some time ago US companies tried to make anime more appropriate for everyone by redrawing and heavy editing, we all no how it turned out.

Violin example You mentioned shows totally different thing. It shows how people are incapable to understand art unless someone tells them "That is art". Music in general can't be translated (IMO). Even in some shows that were fully dubbed, songs still remained in original language (e.g. K-On!).

[pinny]

I apologize for taking the thread off topic again . . . is the "other" topic being continued in a different thread?

I’d like to underscore a complication concerning the relation between “localization” and “understanding.” Just as an example, if the following (literacy) statistics are credible, namely, that “about 70% of high school students need some form of remediation,” it’s clear that being a native speaker of the language does not guarantee good command of the language. As such, these people may need “dubs” or “localizations” for something written in their native tongue (e.g. SparkNotes). In a way, then, it is dubious to assume that the “original” language is necessarily offers a more accurate rendition of artistic intention since it always already depends on audience that is suitably primed to decipher the message (even then, there is likely to be varying interpretation among a competent audience).

We can take a related example to further illuminate the issue: A few years ago The Washington Post had violinist, Joshua Bell (The Red Violin), participate in an experiment where he would play as a street performer in the L'Enfant Plaza metro station in Washington, D.C. He got a mere $32.17 for 43 minutes of playing--a performer who is worth tens of thousands more ($1000 a minute, to be specific, according to The Washington Post article). It stands to reason that Bell’s (usual) ability to command such high prices has as much to do with raw as it does with systemic factors that cultivate a receptive and cooperative (even if potentially nonetheless ignorant) audience. Without diminishing Bell’s accomplishments in any way, we might say that the various institutional and market forces function precisely as a kind of “dub” or “localization” that translates (for the insufficiently initiated audience, including many of those who would pay full price for an “official” concert) the otherwise unintelligible performative brilliance into something more tangible (e.g. cultural capital).

My point is there is no question that Bell is the authentic real deal, or, in other words, the “original,” but even such undisputed genius often requires a “translation” of sorts. Does this “slaughter” or otherwise distort his performance? Insofar as one might not be able to properly understand the performance without such assistance, it could be said the at least some of the audience is getting a distorted or manipulated experience, but on the other hand, without this institutional curation, the same audience might lose all access to such world-class performances--unless we are prepared to insist that the prerequisite to attending a concert of such high caliber is to first undertake years of training to acquire the discernment necessary to identify the talent beneath the veneer of marketing. In this context, it seems that there is at least prima facie legitimacy for the localization of anime, and the more crucial question is rather how to maintain a reasonable degree of refinement and sophistication in the process so that it is not reduced to a crude flourish.

So, after not reading such a long batch of text, I'm inclined to ask... what is your actual favorite encoder?
You look like a freaking spambot to me, wall of text with links, completely unrelated to the topic.

[Cman21]

he isnt and they are links to reputable sources, but i will agree it isnt well placed.

[Zachimillius]

WTF is this shit?

You could say it is about the value of dubbed anime, or even subbed vs watching in the native language. But this is so convoluted, in-succinct and floury it has to be spam

Delete the post and ban the member I say.

[grotesquery]

To respond to pinny et al.:

First, I'll admit that my response was not related to the main topic of the thread, but having read through the earlier pages of the thread, I was interested in following up on the interlude concerning dub vs sub, which had a substantial presence within the thread. Since I am late to the conversation, I wasn't sure if the conversation had been taken to a different thread; if that topic is being continued elsewhere, I'd be much obliged if someone would point me to the relevant thread.

Second, to address the question of favorite encoder: since I am not an encoder myself, and I also do not have any relevant expertise--unlike many of the previous posters--I cannot give an assessment of technical competence. Therefore, I'll answer the question based simply on my subjective impressions and concerns as a consumer of the various end-products.

Joseole99: I like his work mainly because he does dual audio; this is important to me because it allows me to focus more on the visual aspect of an episode--an important component of any visual media--and it also gives me more room to reflect critically on the episode holistically.

Skylord: I've sampled his mini encodes, and I'm pretty impressed. While the quality certainly suffers, to me it's far from being unacceptable. Even though storage is relatively inexpensive nowadays, there is still a significant upfront cost, and since I do full system backups, my costs are always doubled--I definitely appreciate the work that goes into making small but reasonably good quality files.

To be frank, though, in many cases I'm not sure I can make a valid judgement since I usually lack access to the original source material for comparison, and I'm not trained to identify the nuances that others have referenced throughout this thread. Therefore, my priorities might be a bit different from those with a more technical bent.

[Zachimillius]

My bad so it was not spam.

It is not training as much as it is experience. As people watch more and more anime they become aware of the numerous different versions. Then as tastes for anime expands into a quest for audio and visual excellence, at a certain point at which the viewer becomes rather obsessive/pedantic, pretentious even, they start to scrutinize and compare various releases at an absurd level. This is to ensure they can satisfy and gratify their apparent needs and themselves.

This is how it was for me!