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Who are your favorite encoders and why?


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#61
lightningblade

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Sadly I have to agree with pinny on this. but let me also add that if you are truly comparing dubs to sub you also have to look at the original meaning of what is said and how it is said, a lot is lost in translation from Japanese to English. And that is very obvious in the funi translations, and to cover it up they also mess up the sub translation. I have confirmed this several times over with people who actually are native Japanese speakers, they listened to the jap audio and read the subs at the same time .... I don't entirely understand Japanese yet so I had the subs. Well the jap person got angry and explained that the translation was off and the sub was not accurate and it was off big time.
Also I would not call it Gibberish because no language is, saying means you have no understanding of how beautiful all the different languages are (with the exception of the French) and that you are arrogant and have never really looked at what voice actors really do.
Also every voice actor alteres their voice to fit characters and if you at the very nature of the actual character that is portrayed you would notice that an adult has to force their voice to sound like a high school girl which from my experience with some jap high school girls gave a high pitched sound, not all of them have it ... More like its uncommon to find but they exist.
Baldur I am not trying to be offensive but you should not say things you don't have a good understanding of. And calling people who watch the original subtards shows how ignorant of the point that you really are trying to make. At least do some research before you spout off your nonsense.
And just to make a note I at least watch both sub and dub and then I choose which one sounds more natural and 9/10 times it's the original Japanese dub not the English dub, there are very few shows that sound natural in English and that goes for the actual translation but I don't worry about the translation till I have watched it at least once

Edit: Why did this get posted twice .... well I can actually fix my spellings I will delete the first one ... why cant there be a good spell checker on the iPad

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#62
baldur

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For cultural references, well. Two things. First is probably humor and puns. Some jokes simply cannot be translated into English well, subtitles or not. Hmm. In GTO, there's a dull character named Tomoko who's given the punnish nickname Toroko, which apparently is a reference to his simpleness. Unchanged, the joke would have blown right past me with me none the wiser. I wouldn't even have the sense to research what "Toroko" means because I wouldn't even be aware that it's a joke. When they dubbed it, they changed his nickname to "Slomoko", which is still an insulting nickname, but one that I, as an American viewer, will instinctively understand. Apparently the Italian dub changed the name to "Tontako", where the word "tonta" means idiot. The whole name change could be argued of as "slaughtering" the joke, but I honestly don't think so.


Yeah that's what I mean, I did read the manga of GTO (French, Pika Edition) and each time there was a joke this little "*" sign next to it appeared to warn you that there is a joke here and that meant that you had to go at the last pages of the book to read some text that gave definitions of terms and explained to you exactly what the joke meant and how it is supposed to be funny.

A joke is funny right out of the box, not after ten minutes. I'd rather watch a Ghost Stories-like translation of a joke, rather than a 100% faithful literal translation from the original japanese who make about as much sense to a gaijin as much as a Married with Children-like joke makes sense to a japanese.


Also I would not call it Gibberish because no language is


Well it is to me, it hasn't anything to do with being/sounding beautiful or not. if I spoke French to you, it would be gibberish to you because you would not understand anything. This is what it is, japanese, spanish, whatever sound annyoying to me, I can't understand a word of it, therefore it is gibberish.

#63
lightningblade

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I would at least try to understand it, I know a bit of french so it would not be gibberish to me, and just because you cant understand it does not mean it is gibberish, all it means is your inability to understand it shows. Also you are getting the definition wrong too, gibberish is word that means that some thing that sounds like speech but carries not meaning what so ever in any language

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#64
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I would at least try to understand it, I know a bit of french so it would not be gibberish to me, and just because you cant understand it does not mean it is gibberish


Definition: Unintelligible or meaningless speech or writing; nonsense.

Show japanese writings to anyone, most would not know what that is and proceed to ask you why you are showing them gibberish.


I disagree. The art of voice acting needs to involve changing one's voice to whatever suits the character best. This is exactly why japan reigns over voice acting.


I disagree, if they want to voice highschool kid characters they should hire younger voice actors that fit the role with their real voices and not hire some 40's something who are trying too hard to alterate their voice with annoying high pitched sounds to make it seem as if their vocal cords were 23 years younger than what they really are. The end result is non-believable and highly annoying (to me).

#65
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they will start off with young voice actors then they will keep them as long as they can till whatever they are doing to keep their voice sounding young fails to work, and trust me they do a lot of stuff (outside of vocal reconstruction) to keep their voice sounding young, I might not know what that is but they certainly do it with the female.

And just because you cant read or understand something does not mean it is gibberish, take your own definition and think about it, you just insulted the entire world when you called them unintelligent, and sorry to burst your Americanized views (witch I did a long time ago when I decided to actually explore things I did not understand back in high school) but if I remember correctly English is not the only intelligent language, you basically said that anyone that does not speak English is an idiot.
I don't mean to be offensive but you are just showing off how arrogant you are if you think that Japanese or any other language is unintelligent, that would be like me saying that math is complete gibberish just because I don't understand it.

Edit: this has gotten way off topic ... is there any way a mod could move this convo to another thread just so that it does not ensnare people who don't want to read about 2 numbnuts (self included) flame on what ever this is lol

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#66
pinny

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I disagree, if they want to voice highschool kid characters they should hire younger voice actors that fit the role with their real voices and not hire some 40's something who are trying too hard to alterate their voice with annoying high pitched sounds to make it seem as if their vocal cords were 23 years younger than what they really are. The end result is non-believable and highly annoying (to me).

Uhh, there are plenty of female VA's in their twenties. But yeah if you're talking old stuff like Meitantei Conan which has been running for over 15 years or One Piece then yeah they have voice actors which are a bit older than the rest, since they obviously want to keep the same cast. <_<

It also seems pretty obvious to me that VA's want to keep their voices as high pitched as they can when they become older. A prime example of this is Hayashibara Megumi who, at the age of ~45, still sounds very similar to when she voiced the same characters nearly 20 years ago. And for all the fans of these long running anime that is quite amazing.

You're also forgetting that if any of your beloved english dubs will be running longer than 15 years you'll have exactly the same problem. Except in your case, since they aren't allowed to high pitch their voice, any 12 year old schoolgirls will sound like your grandma. That must be fun. ^_^

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#67
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lol nice pinny

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#68
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ok i thought i would catch up on this thread so i read the first 2 and noticed that they all where really long sooo... tldr. :P

#69
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ok i thought i would catch up on this thread so i read the first 2 and noticed that they all where really long sooo... tldr. :P

You need someone who dubs this thread for you :)

#70
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that would be nice ^_^ i could listen to it while eating my breakfast and reading up on the news.

#71
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Right off the bat? I watched the complete pilot. I also listen to english dubs on a daily basis, be it regular TV series, games and cartoons. Which I usually have no complaints about at all. Legend of Korra had voices which were, on a scale from 1 to 10, just a 6, compared to other cartoons, in my opinion. So no, this is not because my preference is japanese, it is because the voices were just badly chosen, badly acted or bad in general, your choice. :P

Well... what are you English dubs that you like? I don't recall you ever praising a dub.

And, again, I want to stress that there's nothing wrong with choosing Japanese over English. Just don't dress it up as being unbiased.

I never once said I didn't accept dub watcher. I also don't call them "dubtards" as a certain other person here.
Also if you understood japanese as much as I did and compared english to japanese as I do, then you would know the differences between them and you would agree with me. Not to mention people like me use subs for reference rather than for understanding.
Those examples you gave aren't very convincing. A decent fansub would simply add an editor's note with why she is being called Toroko.

I think it's entirely convincing, and it was just one example that I could think off the top of my head.

But in the specific example I put forth, while putting a translators note would stay true to the letter of the original content, I don't think it would be true to the spirit. A joke is supposed to be instantly funny. Needing notes to understand the joke detracts from it's humor. And, give me an honest answer, since you know Japanese: Would you have instinctively gotten the joke about Tomoko/Toroko? Or would you have needed a few moments (or a translator's note) to piece together the pun?

You're saying they want it more accessible? Well they do the same with certain games to make it fit for ratings internationally. They remove blood, profanity and female sexiness. Now how would you like to play a game like that as an adult? I certainly would hate having to play such a slaughtered game. But then again, if you don't care about playing games as they were intended then that's fine for you.

That's exactly what I'm saying. The companies want it more accessible. Look at Left 4 Dead 2 in Australia. Their entertainment board wouldn't allow the game into the country unless they cut basically all of the bodies, blood, and gore out. If Valve hadn't done that for the Austalia release, they would have lost an entire country of prospective customers. It wasn't a good solution, but it was the least evil one.

And that goes back to my point, that many changes are made so that the product could be more economically viable. In fact, I bet many major changes are not random ideas from the American companies, but were ideas pushed by the Japanese companies. Dragonball Z in the USA got a bad rap because of how changed it was from the source material. What a lot of people don't know is that the Japanese companies essentially demanded that it be editted so that it could be aired on daytime television.

I see english dubbed/localized subbed anime in exactly the same way. They remove all the things that make it what it is: a japanese 'cartoon'. And therefore anything that changes this fact (it being japanese) makes me think of it as butchered.

But that statement is so sweepingly overgeneralized that it holds no water, not to mention ill-defined. What changes remove the "Japanese-ness" from any given show? Translating food names? Localizing honorifics to their Western equivalents? Changing jokes so that they're instinctively funny instead of requiring esoteric knowledge? Are you talking about the huge, huge changes, like what 4Kids generally do? Is it simply speaking in English instead of Japanese?

There's such a simple solution for this: provide 2 subtitle tracks, one localized and one not.

This reply confuses me. All throughout your various posts, you say how much you dislike localization. However, in the above quoted portion, you say you wouldn't mind direct and localized sub tracks (which makes me assume you want the subs only, not the dub audio).

So which is it? Are you against localizations entirely, or just against American voices?

If the former, you're contradicting yourself. If the latter, you are in fact admitting a bias against American voice acting (which, as I'll say again, is completely fine; just admit you're biased against American voices).

Like I said before I wasn't the one looking down on dubwatchers or localization. I merely replied to the person calling me and everyone else that enjoys japanese voices a "subtard" with some reasons as to why his post was full of shit.
Why you are defending for him, since you even call him ignorant and/or arrogant in this last paragraph, is beyond me. <_<

Maybe it's just how your words are being translated into English from your native tongue, but by your word choices and tone you do indeed seem very condescending towards localizations and those who watch them. I'll take your word that you don't harbor these feelings towards dub-watchers at face value, however.


I disagree. The art of voice acting needs to involve changing one's voice to whatever suits the character best. This is exactly why japan reigns over voice acting. Most of their VA's can use different voices, therefore increase the difference in the great amount of characters they voice. This is a lot better than always hearing the same VA and remembering other characters from other anime while watching something else. I'd say it's great to not always hear the same voices as usually is the case in english dubs.

I don't know. Listen to the narrator of Okami-san and Makina from Shikabane Hime. Entirely different voices, same actress. Or Kurau from Kurau Phantom Memories and Ringo of Okami-san and Jo of Burst Angel. Entirely different voices, same actress. Or Gohan and Captain Broken Aizen. Same voice actor.

I mean in a sense I do hear the same "voices". I'm so familiar with so many of the voice actors that I can usually tell which VA it is even if they're doing something, so it's kind of true. I'm sure the same can be said for a native Japanese speaker who can hear the bajillion roles of Nana Mizuki of Rie Kugimiya.


Just keep in mind that not every sub watcher is like this. Some of my friends require englishdubs simply because they can't read subs fast enough or prefer it in some way I don't understand. Though not once have I hated them for this, even though by myself I watch all my anime in japanese. Sure I try to convert them though, but calling people dubtards doesn't really help with that I think. :P

I don't know. Saying you store your anime without the dub tracks for the express purpose of making sure your friends can't hear the dub track seems a bit mean-spirited, but again I'll take you on your word.


You're also forgetting that if any of your beloved english dubs will be running longer than 15 years you'll have exactly the same problem. Except in your case, since they aren't allowed to high pitch their voice, any 12 year old schoolgirls will sound like your grandma. That must be fun. ^_^

This is probably a callback to cultural differences. Like in Japan it's considered good acting to chew the scenery as you throw your mighty super attack. In America, it's considered good acting to be a little more subdued when doing the same action.

Likewise, America doesn't really an archetype for the extremely high-pitched girl voice. If someone tried to emulate that kind of voice in America it wouldn't fly (with the possible exception of Carrie Savage, who has an utterly adorable voice, and Monica Rial whose voice is naturally pitched that high). Thus they tend to go with a lower voice you're likely to encounter in an American school and thus be familiar with.

#72
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You need someone who dubs this thread for you :)

that would be nice ^_^ i could listen to it while eating my breakfast and reading up on the news.


I can't believe I did this

http://www.filefactory.com/file/19xkdrhs1oxz/n/ForgeDubsForCman.rar


#73
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I can't believe I did this

http://www.filefactory.com/file/19xkdrhs1oxz/n/ForgeDubsForCman.rar

"pinny says" :thumbsup:



PS: You have a very pleasant voice.

#74
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VA career, here I come.

Oh, and that's a sample of what you get if you join my Mumble channel!

#75
pinny

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Damn you have a lot of time on your hands. I need to keep it all short.

Well... what are you English dubs that you like? I don't recall you ever praising a dub.

I love South Park and the Simpsons.

And, again, I want to stress that there's nothing wrong with choosing Japanese over English. Just don't dress it up as being unbiased.

My opinion is as biased as anyone else's. <_<

I think it's entirely convincing, and it was just one example that I could think off the top of my head.

But in the specific example I put forth, while putting a translators note would stay true to the letter of the original content, I don't think it would be true to the spirit. A joke is supposed to be instantly funny. Needing notes to understand the joke detracts from it's humor. And, give me an honest answer, since you know Japanese: Would you have instinctively gotten the joke about Tomoko/Toroko? Or would you have needed a few moments (or a translator's note) to piece together the pun?

Back when I watched it I had the insight of understanding that is was a pun on a name. The exact translation of the pun however I didn't know. So that's exactly where the translator's note came in. I don't know how fast you can read, but to me it all goes automatically. I've read subs for at least 20 years so to me it is no different from hearing what is being said.
Which, again, is also why I hate it when something being said is different from what is being subbed.

That's exactly what I'm saying. The companies want it more accessible. Look at Left 4 Dead 2 in Australia. Their entertainment board wouldn't allow the game into the country unless they cut basically all of the bodies, blood, and gore out. If Valve hadn't done that for the Austalia release, they would have lost an entire country of prospective customers. It wasn't a good solution, but it was the least evil one.

And that goes back to my point, that many changes are made so that the product could be more economically viable. In fact, I bet many major changes are not random ideas from the American companies, but were ideas pushed by the Japanese companies. Dragonball Z in the USA got a bad rap because of how changed it was from the source material. What a lot of people don't know is that the Japanese companies essentially demanded that it be editted so that it could be aired on daytime television.

Yeah, I love how in DBZ how he said the power level was OVER 9 THOUSANDDDDD, even though he said 8 thousand in the actual japanese dub.
Fun aside, sure it's good that things become more widespread like this. But that also means things change, and usually in ways that the fans that have been in the scene from the start, do not like. Things like these happen all the time in online MMO's for example and in those cases you don't even have the choice of going back to how it was. Now many people have stopped playing those games because of that. I would hate for anime to get ruined in a similar fashion. Now I may be just talking post-apocalyptic, but what if the internet no longer existed, and you could only buy english voiced anime in your local store? That would screw over every japanese sub watcher. So that is just a possible future from getting too widespread. It's already happening with games, being released over here in Europe with english dubs and no japanese original dub. I had to import my Final Fantasy 13 from Hong Kong in order to play it with a japanese dub and english menu's (since sadly I can't read kanji yet).

But that statement is so sweepingly overgeneralized that it holds no water, not to mention ill-defined. What changes remove the "Japanese-ness" from any given show? Translating food names? Localizing honorifics to their Western equivalents? Changing jokes so that they're instinctively funny instead of requiring esoteric knowledge? Are you talking about the huge, huge changes, like what 4Kids generally do? Is it simply speaking in English instead of Japanese?

Everything that is different is bad. The only translation that I require is that of words. And in the cases that words aren't enough to understand the pun and editor's note may be added.
I might even prefer a japanese-transcription-thrown-in-babelfish translation than the english dub transcriptions that some R1 subs are.

This reply confuses me. All throughout your various posts, you say how much you dislike localization. However, in the above quoted portion, you say you wouldn't mind direct and localized sub tracks (which makes me assume you want the subs only, not the dub audio).

So which is it? Are you against localizations entirely, or just against American voices?

If the former, you're contradicting yourself. If the latter, you are in fact admitting a bias against American voice acting (which, as I'll say again, is completely fine; just admit you're biased against American voices).

I'm against both, IF they butcher any japanese cultural aspects of the anime. If they can leave anime unslaughtered, then they have my full support in bringing more people to our great family of anime fans.
I'm still not biased against english voices, although now that you mention American voices, I do dislike certain American accents. But I'm sure even you english dub lovers have some dislikes for certain accents.

Maybe it's just how your words are being translated into English from your native tongue, but by your word choices and tone you do indeed seem very condescending towards localizations and those who watch them. I'll take your word that you don't harbor these feelings towards dub-watchers at face value, however.

I hear that a lot. Do I use too few smileys? :P

I don't know. Listen to the narrator of Okami-san and Makina from Shikabane Hime. Entirely different voices, same actress. Or Kurau from Kurau Phantom Memories and Ringo of Okami-san and Jo of Burst Angel. Entirely different voices, same actress. Or Gohan and Captain Broken Aizen. Same voice actor.

I mean in a sense I do hear the same "voices". I'm so familiar with so many of the voice actors that I can usually tell which VA it is even if they're doing something, so it's kind of true. I'm sure the same can be said for a native Japanese speaker who can hear the bajillion roles of Nana Mizuki of Rie Kugimiya.

Umm, I think it was baldur who said that english voice actors don't change their voices. (which was supposed to be something good)
And as for the japanese VA's, I can certainly hear plenty of difference between some of Rie Kugimiya's roles. But you have to agree that she does have quite a distinct voice that is hard to stay unnoticed.
But you are right that there are many character in which you can notice the VA being used. I believe this is also because there a great many creepy seiyuu otaku in japan that actually want to hear their voice.

I don't know. Saying you store your anime without the dub tracks for the express purpose of making sure your friends can't hear the dub track seems a bit mean-spirited, but again I'll take you on your word.

That's not mean-spirited, that's being helpful. If you let people watch japanese anime with subs long enough they will learn reading subs or even the language itself and can enjoy the latest season's anime much better. From my experience at least. Some of my friends, who didn't enjoy the japanese dub at first and wanted it english are now hardcore subtards! :)

This is probably a callback to cultural differences. Like in Japan it's considered good acting to chew the scenery as you throw your mighty super attack. In America, it's considered good acting to be a little more subdued when doing the same action.

Likewise, America doesn't really an archetype for the extremely high-pitched girl voice. If someone tried to emulate that kind of voice in America it wouldn't fly (with the possible exception of Carrie Savage, who has an utterly adorable voice, and Monica Rial whose voice is naturally pitched that high). Thus they tend to go with a lower voice you're likely to encounter in an American school and thus be familiar with.

Well, I'm not an American, so I can't comment on that.
But then would you say that english dubs are primarily aimed at american viewers and not so much aimed at international distribution? Since from what you say it seems that way. Also, strange as it may be, to me japanese sounds much more like my native language than english does.

TL;DR: I don't watch anime for it to be realistic to the environment. I actually like high-pitched voiced schoolgirls and fighters shouting their best techniques, because that isn't something that you see around you every day. I guess that's also why I prefer japanese over english and also like their cultural differences: because they're "strange" to me. :)
So changing those cultural differences back to what is normal in your area, e.g. localization, ruins the anime for me. :(

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#76
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this has turned into a japanese dub vs english dub thread...

#77
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this has turned into a japanese dub vs english dub thread...

And I'm enjoying this thread much more now than when it was on topic :P

#78
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Ok................................ diggin this Rocky vs Ivan Drago match lol

#79
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I forgot when we even switched to the discussion of english vs japanese. Last I checked I was on-topic explaining my favourite encoder and the reason for my choice being the fact that it was wasting less drive space due to the lack of english dubs and not using any lossless audio codecs. :(
How it even ended up being about subtitles is totally beyond me. :lol:

Anyway, the installation of my PC is finally complete so I will throw in the towel!
ENGLISH DUBS BANZAI!

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#80
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wow this is about as off topic as it gets

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