Jump to content

Welcome to AnimePassion
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Who are your favorite encoders and why?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
121 replies to this topic

#41
pinny

pinny

    Cardcaptor

  • VIP
  • 333 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 03:57 PM
I like to think of watching japanese dubs with subs as learning a new language. When I started watching anime I couldn't understand a thing, now there is only little I don't understand :)
I don't really need the subs anymore now, only with fast speech or hard sentences. And I have read subtitles all my life (in holland nearly everything gets subtitled and not dubbed), so it's fine for me anyway.

Anyway, If you're gonna waste your time watching anime, you may as well make it, even if it's just a little bit, useful. :P

Posted Image


#42
Ero Penguin

Ero Penguin

    Mushi

  • Members
  • 151 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 08:57 PM

A big advantage of not being a native speaker in English is, that I don't hear how crappy some voice acts actually are and, thus, can fully enjoy them ;)

Yes exactly, unless the dub is really really awful, I don't notice bad voice acting that much as I'm not a natve English speaker either.
About learning Japanese from subbed anime. I've talked to a person who spent 10 years in Japan and is pretty good at Japanese and he said subbed anime is NOT the way to learn the language. If you really wanna learn it, do some serious studying.

#43
Cman21

Cman21

    /)*(\ ^_^

  • Administrators
  • 2,432 posts
  • 255 thanks
  • Local time: 09:57 AM
now that is a very good point. even those wonderful japanese dubes you like to watch subbed might sound 100x better than the Eng version only because you know english so well. to a japanese person he might say its the other way around. that the eng voice acting is better but would rather watch the Jpn dub cuz he is lazy like the rest of us :P

#44
lightningblade

lightningblade

    King of Lightning

  • Trusted Encoders
  • 1,345 posts
  • 157 thanks
  • Local time: 10:57 AM
... cman not sure I get your logic there

lightningblade.jpg
Anime-Planet.com - anime | manga | reviews
2588255.png

 


#45
Cman21

Cman21

    /)*(\ ^_^

  • Administrators
  • 2,432 posts
  • 255 thanks
  • Local time: 09:57 AM
you are a lot more sensitive to your native language than you are a foreign one. as you did not grow up with it to know all the little intricacies of your native language that make it VERY easy to tell if someone is voice acting and not doing a good job. so listening to a foreign voice actor we can not tell unless they are doing a very horrific job.

#46
lightningblade

lightningblade

    King of Lightning

  • Trusted Encoders
  • 1,345 posts
  • 157 thanks
  • Local time: 10:57 AM
you also forget that to be a voice actor in japan means going to school for it and being trained how to speak ... and here in America we dont give a flipin pile of shit who does what ... well from my understanding
so in a sense at least the Japanese voice actors know what they are doing

lightningblade.jpg
Anime-Planet.com - anime | manga | reviews
2588255.png

 


#47
Forge

Forge

    Now with 50% more win!

  • Trusted Encoders
  • 950 posts
  • 987 thanks
  • Local time: 07:57 AM
  • LocationSunny, Sunny Kalifornia
It depends. Several American voice actors--I know Mona Marshall is one for sure, and I'm pretty sure Monica Rial and Carrie Savage fit--actually have an educational background in acting, whether it's voice or stage acting. So there are those.

And, usually the people who are directing the dubs are voice actors themselves. They know what to "listen" for when they try to assign people to spots. They just don't grab Joe Schmoe off the street and put him in the booth.

#48
lightningblade

lightningblade

    King of Lightning

  • Trusted Encoders
  • 1,345 posts
  • 157 thanks
  • Local time: 10:57 AM
sounds like it in some places DAMN THAT FUNI GUY THAT ANOYS THE LIVING CRAP OUT OF ME, forge know who I am talking about

lightningblade.jpg
Anime-Planet.com - anime | manga | reviews
2588255.png

 


#49
Forge

Forge

    Now with 50% more win!

  • Trusted Encoders
  • 950 posts
  • 987 thanks
  • Local time: 07:57 AM
  • LocationSunny, Sunny Kalifornia
I think that's just a case of a personal dislike of his voice. I mean, it happens. Some people have something about them that rubs you the wrong way.

Considering how many voices he's played, though, I highly doubt he would be unprofessional or anything.

#50
lightningblade

lightningblade

    King of Lightning

  • Trusted Encoders
  • 1,345 posts
  • 157 thanks
  • Local time: 10:57 AM
his voice is still a very annoying voice, a guy should not have the squirrely voice

lightningblade.jpg
Anime-Planet.com - anime | manga | reviews
2588255.png

 


#51
baldur

baldur

    Duelist

  • Inactive Member
  • PipPip
  • 424 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 03:57 PM

They just don't grab Joe Schmoe off the street and put him in the booth.


Well they used to do that, up until... 15 years ago? English voice acting has evolved since then and only became better and better, Subtards are just stuck in the past. Plus, they like to claim that the japanese version is the "real one", and that the english one is "just a dub", well anime characters have no voice on their own whitout voice actors, so wether it's the japanese version or the english version they both are dubs and now in 2012 english dubs from shows released by Funimation and Sentai are superior to the japanese dubs.

#52
Rebound

Rebound

    Genin

  • Inactive Member
  • 66 posts
  • 1 thanks
  • Local time: 08:57 AM
  • LocationHouston TX
I am quite surprised how active this thread end up being. You guys have a lot of good points and I must say that I think I have a good idea on who I should trust in terms of encodes and that is mainly people from this community!

Also, keep the conversation going. This is quite fun to read hehe

#53
pinny

pinny

    Cardcaptor

  • VIP
  • 333 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 03:57 PM

Well they used to do that, up until... 15 years ago? English voice acting has evolved since then and only became better and better, Subtards are just stuck in the past. Plus, they like to claim that the japanese version is the "real one", and that the english one is "just a dub", well anime characters have no voice on their own whitout voice actors, so wether it's the japanese version or the english version they both are dubs and now in 2012 english dubs from shows released by Funimation and Sentai are superior to the japanese dubs.

You don't even speak japanese so how on earth could you even say english dubs are superior? I can only laugh at this nonsense.
I on the other hand understand both japanese and english and thus can more easily say which is better. So, as sad as it may be for you, the opinion of a "subtard" has a lot more value than your single minded approach. :)

Also anime is made by japanese people, hence the STORYBOARD is written in japanese. So... yes! Japanese IS the real one. Any script made by using that japanese storyboard is just a dub of what the creator intended. Not to mention that usually these dubs have most of the intended puns completely changed to some westernized version in which the japanese culture is no longer present. I would pretty much call that anime "slaughtered" by then. And you wouldn't know things like that if all you care about is english dubs. <_<

Posted Image


#54
Forge

Forge

    Now with 50% more win!

  • Trusted Encoders
  • 950 posts
  • 987 thanks
  • Local time: 07:57 AM
  • LocationSunny, Sunny Kalifornia

You don't even speak japanese so how on earth could you even say english dubs are superior? I can only laugh at this nonsense.
I on the other hand understand both japanese and english and thus can more easily say which is better. So, as sad as it may be for you, the opinion of a "subtard" has a lot more value than your single minded approach. :)

Also anime is made by japanese people, hence the STORYBOARD is written in japanese. So... yes! Japanese IS the real one. Any script made by using that japanese storyboard is just a dub of what the creator intended. Not to mention that usually these dubs have most of the intended puns completely changed to some westernized version in which the japanese culture is no longer present. I would pretty much call that anime "slaughtered" by then. And you wouldn't know things like that if all you care about is english dubs. <_<

I could hardly say you're unbiased, Pinny. I noticed when you described The Legend Of Korra--which is an American show made by Americans for Americans--you dismissed the voice acting as poor right off the bat. You don't seem to like American voice acting... and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't much like Japanese voices in anime and prefer localized dubs. It's a preference, like eating your chicken wings with ranch or barbecue sauce, or strawberry jam instead of blackberry jam on your pancakes.

Localizations are meant to be, well, localized. It's supposed to fit with the cultural paradigms of the audience.

What I notice when listening to Japanese audio is that I can't really "feel" the emotions from the characters. They all sound the same to me. I can hear the emotional differences and nuances when listening in English language. Furthermore, what we expect is also different. To a Japanese person, the hero giving out a top-of-the-lungs mighty yell as he reigns down rightoues smiting on the bad guy is good acting. I, and American, feels that it sounds kind of corny. When the dub does it, and tones down the volume and maybe changes the pitch a bit, I feel the power of that mighty yell while not feeling that the actor is trying to hard. A person with a preference to Japanese audio might think it's a bit anemic. And that's all right. To each his own.

For cultural references, well. Two things. First is probably humor and puns. Some jokes simply cannot be translated into English well, subtitles or not. Hmm. In GTO, there's a dull character named Tomoko who's given the punnish nickname Toroko, which apparently is a reference to his simpleness. Unchanged, the joke would have blown right past me with me none the wiser. I wouldn't even have the sense to research what "Toroko" means because I wouldn't even be aware that it's a joke. When they dubbed it, they changed his nickname to "Slomoko", which is still an insulting nickname, but one that I, as an American viewer, will instinctively understand. Apparently the Italian dub changed the name to "Tontako", where the word "tonta" means idiot. The whole name change could be argued of as "slaughtering" the joke, but I honestly don't think so.

Second, there's a difference between localization and compeltely eliminating refernces to Japan. I know 4Kids does a lot of that. (Although to be fair, according to Greg Ayres a lot of weird changes, in, say, One Piece were at the behest of the Japanese companies. After all, they're companies, who want to make money; changing stuff around so it's more accessible to a wider audiences means more cash flow.) There's things like translating... tamagoyaki and onigiri to omelette and rice ball. Or changing -San to Mr./Ms./Mrs., or -Sama to Lord, or -dono to Sir.


This big old TL;DR was just my way of expressing two opinions about the whole original versus localization debate. One, if the localization stays true to the spirit of the original Japanese version (which is what localizations are pretty much, by definition) I think it's just as valid as a version that sticks to the letter of the Japanese version, or direct subs. We have to remember that anime is a market, which means they have to sell. If localization helps sell more of the product, that's nothing but beneficial.

Second, I don't see a problem with preferring one version over another. If you like the Japanese verion, more power to you. If you like the localization, more power to you. Giving a sweeping generalization that localizations "suck" (or that the source material is the one-and-only true material, and the dub is a cheap knockoff), or that subtitles are "bad", walks the line between ignorance and arrogance.

#55
baldur

baldur

    Duelist

  • Inactive Member
  • PipPip
  • 424 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 03:57 PM

You don't even speak japanese so how on earth could you even say english dubs are superior?


In the majority of cases japanese actors who dub anime aren't using their real voices and that's especially true for the female characters who are supposed to sound "kawai" or "moe" and the end result just sound annoying as hell not cute (at least to me). Back in 1995 and before, some of the english dubs out there were so bad that watching the japanese version with subtitles was the only viable option, but not anymore.

So yeah, for me english dubs are superior over annoying sounding gibberish.


This big old TL;DR was just my way of expressing two opinions about the whole original versus localization debate. One, if the localization stays true to the spirit of the original Japanese version (which is what localizations are pretty much, by definition) I think it's just as valid as a version that sticks to the letter of the Japanese version, or direct subs. We have to remember that anime is a market, which means they have to sell. If localization helps sell more of the product, that's nothing but beneficial.


Yeah, but does it need to stay true to the original japanese? This question is especially viable when taking unto account the comedy shows who would be completely unfunny if the localization would stay true to the original japanese (Highschool Kumengumi who uses very very "untranslatable" japanese-centric humor comes to mind.)

#56
pinny

pinny

    Cardcaptor

  • VIP
  • 333 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 03:57 PM

I could hardly say you're unbiased, Pinny. I noticed when you described The Legend Of Korra--which is an American show made by Americans for Americans--you dismissed the voice acting as poor right off the bat. You don't seem to like American voice acting... and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't much like Japanese voices in anime and prefer localized dubs. It's a preference, like eating your chicken wings with ranch or barbecue sauce, or strawberry jam instead of blackberry jam on your pancakes.

Right off the bat? I watched the complete pilot. I also listen to english dubs on a daily basis, be it regular TV series, games and cartoons. Which I usually have no complaints about at all. Legend of Korra had voices which were, on a scale from 1 to 10, just a 6, compared to other cartoons, in my opinion. So no, this is not because my preference is japanese, it is because the voices were just badly chosen, badly acted or bad in general, your choice. :P

Localizations are meant to be, well, localized. It's supposed to fit with the cultural paradigms of the audience.

What I notice when listening to Japanese audio is that I can't really "feel" the emotions from the characters. They all sound the same to me. I can hear the emotional differences and nuances when listening in English language. Furthermore, what we expect is also different. To a Japanese person, the hero giving out a top-of-the-lungs mighty yell as he reigns down rightoues smiting on the bad guy is good acting. I, and American, feels that it sounds kind of corny. When the dub does it, and tones down the volume and maybe changes the pitch a bit, I feel the power of that mighty yell while not feeling that the actor is trying to hard. A person with a preference to Japanese audio might think it's a bit anemic. And that's all right. To each his own.

For cultural references, well. Two things. First is probably humor and puns. Some jokes simply cannot be translated into English well, subtitles or not. Hmm. In GTO, there's a dull character named Tomoko who's given the punnish nickname Toroko, which apparently is a reference to his simpleness. Unchanged, the joke would have blown right past me with me none the wiser. I wouldn't even have the sense to research what "Toroko" means because I wouldn't even be aware that it's a joke. When they dubbed it, they changed his nickname to "Slomoko", which is still an insulting nickname, but one that I, as an American viewer, will instinctively understand. Apparently the Italian dub changed the name to "Tontako", where the word "tonta" means idiot. The whole name change could be argued of as "slaughtering" the joke, but I honestly don't think so.

Second, there's a difference between localization and compeltely eliminating refernces to Japan. I know 4Kids does a lot of that. (Although to be fair, according to Greg Ayres a lot of weird changes, in, say, One Piece were at the behest of the Japanese companies. After all, they're companies, who want to make money; changing stuff around so it's more accessible to a wider audiences means more cash flow.) There's things like translating... tamagoyaki and onigiri to omelette and rice ball. Or changing -San to Mr./Ms./Mrs., or -Sama to Lord, or -dono to Sir.

Since you wrote all this text, I am inclined to reply, else you would've done it for naught.

I never once said I didn't accept dub watcher. I also don't call them "dubtards" as a certain other person here.
Also if you understood japanese as much as I did and compared english to japanese as I do, then you would know the differences between them and you would agree with me. Not to mention people like me use subs for reference rather than for understanding.
Those examples you gave aren't very convincing. A decent fansub would simply add an editor's note with why she is being called Toroko.

You're saying they want it more accessible? Well they do the same with certain games to make it fit for ratings internationally. They remove blood, profanity and female sexiness. Now how would you like to play a game like that as an adult? I certainly would hate having to play such a slaughtered game. But then again, if you don't care about playing games as they were intended then that's fine for you.
I see english dubbed/localized subbed anime in exactly the same way. They remove all the things that make it what it is: a japanese 'cartoon'. And therefore anything that changes this fact (it being japanese) makes me think of it as butchered.

This big old TL;DR was just my way of expressing two opinions about the whole original versus localization debate. One, if the localization stays true to the spirit of the original Japanese version (which is what localizations are pretty much, by definition) I think it's just as valid as a version that sticks to the letter of the Japanese version, or direct subs. We have to remember that anime is a market, which means they have to sell. If localization helps sell more of the product, that's nothing but beneficial.

There's such a simple solution for this: provide 2 subtitle tracks, one localized and one not.

Second, I don't see a problem with preferring one version over another. If you like the Japanese verion, more power to you. If you like the localization, more power to you. Giving a sweeping generalization that localizations "suck" (or that the source material is the one-and-only true material, and the dub is a cheap knockoff), or that subtitles are "bad", walks the line between ignorance and arrogance.

Like I said before I wasn't the one looking down on dubwatchers or localization. I merely replied to the person calling me and everyone else that enjoys japanese voices a "subtard" with some reasons as to why his post was full of shit.
Why you are defending for him, since you even call him ignorant and/or arrogant in this last paragraph, is beyond me. <_<

Posted Image


#57
pinny

pinny

    Cardcaptor

  • VIP
  • 333 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 03:57 PM

In the majority of cases japanese actors who dub anime aren't using their real voices and that's especially true for the female characters who are supposed to sound "kawai" or "moe" and the end result just sound annoying as hell, which is not cute (at least to me). Back in 1995 and before, some of the english dubs out there were so bad that watching the japanese version with subtitles was the only viable option, but not anymore.

So yeah, for me english dubs are superior over annoying sounding gibberish.

They don't use their real voices? Well, isn't that the whole point of voice "ACTING" ? <_<

Posted Image


#58
baldur

baldur

    Duelist

  • Inactive Member
  • PipPip
  • 424 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 03:57 PM

Like I said before I wasn't the one looking down on dubwatchers or localization. I merely replied to the person calling me and everyone else that enjoys japanese voices a "subtard" with some reasons as to why his post was full of shit.
Why you are defending for him, since you even call him ignorant and/or arrogant in this last paragraph, is beyond me. <_<


Well you can't deny that people who favors subs over dubs are usually quite elitist and condescending toward dubs and dubwatchers (dubtards) and the reason they give for that is usually explained by them that 15 years ago dubs sucked and that subs is for true "purists" blahblahblah.

Most people who prefer dub, would still watch subbed shows if there is no other alternative available (I know I do), the opposite it is not true for people who prefer subs who wouldn't watch ANYTHING dubbed.

#59
baldur

baldur

    Duelist

  • Inactive Member
  • PipPip
  • 424 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 03:57 PM

They don't use their real voices? Well, isn't that the whole point of voice "ACTING" ? <_<


Not really. You may change the way you speak, but you don't alterate the sound of your voice to sound like a mouse or some other sort of "kawai" rodent like the japanese actors do for the anime characters they voice. Actors who dub movies and TV Shows don't alterate the sound of their voice (at least I have never seen this outside of anime), they may change the way they speak to fit to the personality of the character they voice, but that's about it.

#60
pinny

pinny

    Cardcaptor

  • VIP
  • 333 posts
  • 0 thanks
  • Local time: 03:57 PM

Not really. You may change the way you speak, but you don't alterate the sound of your voice to sound like a mouse or some other sort of "kawai" rodent like the japanese actors do for the anime characters they voice. Actors who dub movies and TV Shows don't alterate the sound of their voice (at least I have never seen this outside of anime), they may change the way they speak to fit to the personality of the character they voice, but that's about it.

I disagree. The art of voice acting needs to involve changing one's voice to whatever suits the character best. This is exactly why japan reigns over voice acting. Most of their VA's can use different voices, therefore increase the difference in the great amount of characters they voice. This is a lot better than always hearing the same VA and remembering other characters from other anime while watching something else. I'd say it's great to not always hear the same voices as usually is the case in english dubs.

Well you can't deny that people who favors subs over dubs are usually quite elitist and condescending toward dubs and dubwatchers (dubtards) and the reason they give for that is usually explained by them that 15 years ago dubs sucked and that subs is for true "purists" blahblahblah.

Most people who prefer dub, would still watch subbed shows if there is no other alternative available (I know I do), the opposite it is not true for people who prefer subs who wouldn't watch ANYTHING dubbed.

Just keep in mind that not every sub watcher is like this. Some of my friends require english dubs simply because they can't read subs fast enough or prefer it in some way I don't understand. Though not once have I hated them for this, even though by myself I watch all my anime in japanese. Sure I try to convert them though, but calling people dubtards doesn't really help with that I think. :P

Posted Image



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users